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The Cold in Canada

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Van Royko

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Hello

I recently went to Red seminar here in Montreal and was very impressed with what I saw. Actually I didnt get too excited until I got the chance to work with some real footage in Red Cine. Then I really saw the difference between this and any other video system I've used (The f900 included). I immediately put down a deposit.

But...

One thing concerned me about the presentation. The owner operators of the RED mentioned they had problems in -5 celsius weather. The camera would shut off after 5 minutes. Sounded like it had something to do with the super power fans sucking in too much cold air. -5 celsius is a balmy day during a Montreal winter. Ive shot 20 hour outdoor shoots in -20 with my HVX/Redrock system.

So has/is this cold issue being addressed?

Im sure there are a few of us Canucks up here rather concerned, eh......
 
cold weather

cold weather

i don't think anyone should be as concerned about cold as they are about the heat and humidity. if your fans are sucking in cold air, block them off. what's the worst that can happen? run the camera in a warm environment prior to taking it outside to let it heat up. there might even be a fan shut off override selection in the menus that red are already working on or is already buried in there. i won't know myself until i get my cam this month.

your concern is a legitimate one but i think it's also a fairly simple fix but i would wait for red's input on this issue for sure.
 
oogabooga said:
Hello

I recently went to Red seminar here in Montreal and was very impressed with what I saw. Actually I didnt get too excited until I got the chance to work with some real footage in Red Cine. Then I really saw the difference between this and any other video system I've used (The f900 included). I immediately put down a deposit.

But...

One thing concerned me about the presentation. The owner operators of the RED mentioned they had problems in -5 celsius weather. The camera would shut off after 5 minutes. Sounded like it had something to do with the super power fans sucking in too much cold air. -5 celsius is a balmy day during a Montreal winter. Ive shot 20 hour outdoor shoots in -20 with my HVX/Redrock system.

So has/is this cold issue being addressed?

Im sure there are a few of us Canucks up here rather concerned, eh......
Click to expand...
Search for"Winter strips"by Jim on the forum
 
There is already multi-position fan functionality in the menus, and RED is providing vent strips that slip into the vent openings to restrict air flow for cold weather shooting situations. If possible, following the advice to warm up the camera before shooting in these conditions is probably a good idea.
 
There is some information on this thread (be sure to read the whole thing...)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=109109#post109109

So far, the cold-related problems I have read here are with people using the camera with the fans running in cold weather. The fans can be turned off, I think it is a menu setting. (Maybe that should be automatic, below a certain temp?) Also, you can install the "winter strips" to block the fan vents. And of course your batteries won't work as long in the cold, like any other camera. Apparently, if you leave your camera in an unheated area overnight it may not start in the morning.

Now that it is December, I'd think we'd have heard more about cold problems if it was a very widespread issue.
 
the settings for the fans are only for the fan speed when you press record.
the fans run at full speed when not recording.. or am I missing something?
 
Canadian weather experiance

Canadian weather experiance

I shot quite a bit in cold weather here in Saskatchewan in mid Nov (between minus 10 and minus 15 degrees celcius) and the biggest problem I had was getting the camera to boot when it was cold. After warming up the camera in the truck it booted fine, and we shot without any problems. With that said, I am planning on going out tomorrow to shoot in -20C weather and we will see what happens. I have the cold weather covers on the camera's air intake ports, which according to RED is all I need.

I am shooting on #72
 
wigby said:
i don't think anyone should be as concerned about cold as they are about the heat and humidity. if your fans are sucking in cold air, block them off. what's the worst that can happen? run the camera in a warm environment prior to taking it outside to let it heat up. there might even be a fan shut off override selection in the menus that red are already working on or is already buried in there. i won't know myself until i get my cam this month.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Cold is a significant issue. You can't simply run the camera in a warm environment and then take it out into the cold. That leads to other issues. The cameras are having trouble at -5C? REALLY?? Oh, sh*t! What about -35C?? Seriously, my camera needs to be able to handle that -- -35F / -37C would probably be the coldest, factoring in wind chill.

Cold weather vent strips... Hmmm.. Might work, but I think there needs to be more. I'll know once I get my hands on RED and can take it into the cold, this should happen in January -- we've got a low 500's camera coming and then mine follows at 1110, probably february.

Panavision and other cameras are actually available with temp monitors and heaters in the cameras. I'm not saying RED needs to go to that extreme, but a reliable temperature gauge would be nice. That way, we could see what's going on and know that it's time to put on a cover or even stuff that cover with heat packs. Oh wait, the sun is hitting the camera now or the camera is actually getting hot because it's run for 3 hours straight with one drive swap... Gotta pull the vent strips now, etc..

Others will back me up on this.. Finner? im.thatoneguy (Gavin), who else?
 
hubickc said:
With that said, I am planning on going out tomorrow to shoot in -20C weather and we will see what happens. I have the cold weather covers on the camera's air intake ports, which according to RED is all I need.

I am shooting on #72
Click to expand...

Yes, let us know how it goes.
 
I'm coming Jeff! I'm coming!!! Just hold out a little bit longer!!

Yeah. this is a big concern of mine too. I want to shoot some 4k Rainier footage next year and take it up on a summit expedition. It gets down to -10c no problem. It also gets up to 70 and 80 so the camera needs to be able to perform in both hot and very very cold.

When you're at 14,000 feet and on the side of a glacier... you can't really take it into a truck and warm it up. You also can't bring a battery powered inefficient jacket. And a backpack full of hand warmers is going to take up a lot of space and be a huge pain in the ass. You don't exactly have time to sit around on summit day waiting for the camera to reach an operating temperature.

I've shot with a WIDE range of digital and film still cameras on a glacier and never had one even give me the slightest problem.

There is also a question of altitude the higher up you get the harder it is to heat and cool something so what might not be a problem at -10 at sealevel all of a sudden loses a significant amount of its heating ability at just 12,000 feet.

Edit: Haha just thought of a crazy idea.. instead of putting in the winter strips... jam in a handwarmer. Would it fit?
 
I think this was more of a firmware issue with the camera, and it seems to me it is something that has or is being addressed in the latest firmware builds.

oogabooga said:
Hello

I recently went to Red seminar here in Montreal and was very impressed with what I saw. Actually I didnt get too excited until I got the chance to work with some real footage in Red Cine. Then I really saw the difference between this and any other video system I've used (The f900 included). I immediately put down a deposit.

But...

One thing concerned me about the presentation. The owner operators of the RED mentioned they had problems in -5 celsius weather. The camera would shut off after 5 minutes. Sounded like it had something to do with the super power fans sucking in too much cold air. -5 celsius is a balmy day during a Montreal winter. Ive shot 20 hour outdoor shoots in -20 with my HVX/Redrock system.

So has/is this cold issue being addressed?

Im sure there are a few of us Canucks up here rather concerned, eh......
Click to expand...
 
i always thought cold temperature might have an effect on cmos sensors - any information / feedback about that?

regards,
martin
 
make sure your fan is set to "variable" - our cameras do not have the weather strips (#6 & #7) - we are shooting in the cold just fine - we had some "power down" issues yesterday that we finally tracked to a defective V-Plate - after we swapped that - we shot the rest of the night and all day today outside without issue - you can tell that it (the camera) likes to be at an "even" temperature - they power it down over lunch and leave it outside with a little space-blanket clipped over it - boots right back up after lunch -
 
babubu said:
Search for"Winter strips"by Jim on the forum
Click to expand...

Yeah, you guys have to search the forum for some of these answers. These are concerns that have been addressed to death within the forum over the past year, and there are ample solutions to the "problem." I don't own a camera either, but I'm damn sure going to know everything I can about it before the time comes when I'll be shooting it.

Most of the answers are already here. You just have to look a little.
 
I was also at that seminar, and the RED owners demonstrating their camera said that the "Winter Strips" didn't solve the problem for them. One of their RED cams just didn't want to boot up. And we're talking -5º C, this is far from being cold. A camera of this caliber just has to work without batting an eyelash at this temperature if one wants to tout it as being reliable. It's all fine and dandy to say the problem has been addressed in this forum, but it's in the field that counts at the end of the day.

Just my 2 cents (CDN).
 
I'm not so sure these concerns have been fully addressed, let alone addressed to death. To my knowledge, no one has even had the camera in extreme cold yet (-35F / -37C). Winter strips to constrict cold air circulation through the camera is one thing, but what about sustained operation in such low temperatures? Will the camera even make enough heat to keep itself operational? Do we need to bring additional means of heating the camera?

Mark, what temperatures are you operating #6 and #7 in? Typical December days in NYC are one thing, above the tree line in the rockies at -22F with 45mph winds is something else.

What is the coldest sustained temperature that RED has tested cameras at?

Sorry if it makes me nervous, but I keep running across reports of REDs shutting down or failing in temperatures that aren't even cold enough to maintain frozen ice on pavement.

When the HVX200 was first starting to ship, one of the first outdoor pictures of that camera was it at the McMurdo station in Antarctica. My HVX200 never failed me at temperatures colder than -20F. I want to see RED do the same.
 
FWIW, I've had F900s stop working on me at -5C. The Sony tech said they're rated to 0C and if you run them below 0 it's at your own risk. They may or may not work...
 
But that's a tape drive issue. Below 0C the tape starts to have breakage problems, you have similar issues with film. With Red right now there is no moving media so cold should be less of an issue. Also LCDs cease to operate at 0F and below. You couldn't communicate with the camera since the LCD won't display anything. Maybe heaters in the body would help, I know that Panaflexes have heaters to keep the movements going in cold weather. I have worked on shows where we had the heaters running all the time on separate power supplies so the cameras would run. Maybe there should be a winterizing kit for people who need their cameras to operate in really cold conditions. But barneys with hand warmers would also help.
 
reality said:
FWIW, I've had F900s stop working on me at -5C. The Sony tech said they're rated to 0C and if you run them below 0 it's at your own risk. They may or may not work...
Click to expand...

Sounds odd to me. I have shot with many of the 900 series cameras below -35C. Not had any problems and those are 12 or more hours a day in those temperatures.
 
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