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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Subtle bugs in redcine

R

Rob Lohman

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Just wanted to let everyone know we've found two bugs in REDCINE that might bite you.

1) when selecting full high quality (or when rendering) you might see some image corruption (not enough image data was loaded). This bug has been fixed for the next release

2) when scaling an image you might see some funky things at the top & bottom of the image, this is being looked at

Other issues like QuickTime compatibility and problems with the highlight control are also known (as reported here by some) and worked on.
 
Hey Rob

How about making QT proxies?
Dual monitor system working correctly (on the menu bar monitor)?
Unexpected quits?
EDL support?

The workflow we where sold at NAB/IBC
 
REDCINE will eventually have a "pull list" but no EDL support.

Jim
 
Rob,

Does # 1 also result in black frames or colored frames? Would that also show up as errors and warnings in the log file? I have attached some results.

I am making a list of bugs now and repro steps, but I suspect # 1 is the cause for the majority. I am currently focused on outputting TIFF at the moment.
 
flameop said:
Surely you load a edl and it extracts a pull list? Pulls those shots for export? :-/
How does one make a pull list thats not an edl ?

S
Click to expand...

I think maybe it will be able to pull those shots (indicated in the EDL) for export, but not do a conform. Maybe after you export the shots, RedCine will generate a new EDL that can be used in another app to do the actual conform?
 
Potential BUG

Potential BUG

I've found in OSX that if you have an alias in your directory structure, RedCine won't show items after it.

B
 
Timecode BUGS

Timecode BUGS

Build60 showed 25fps captured material as 25fps.
Build66 shows 25fps captured material as 24fps.

The QT wrapper shows 25fps, the clip data in the Library module shows the 24fps. Really annoying with a whole days clips to transcode for offline with TC burnins...

B
 
flameop said:
How does one make a pull list thats not an edl ?
Click to expand...

There are many different ways. To name a few... ALE, CTL, XML, FLX.

A pull-list and an EDL serve very different functions. One is to pull footage that needs to be reconverted. One is for conforming a finished timeline.

Here's the problem with EDL support in any appliation, not just REDCINE...

It is *never* just EDL support. Because offlines are always screwed up. Always. I did several years of professional Online Editing for high-end feature and episodic in LA. Some of the best and most skilled Offline Editors and Assistant Editors in the business. I never got a clean list first time around. Not once. That's why there is an entire job that is partially dedicated to solving those issues - Online Editing.

As soon as EDLs are "supported," then here is what's next:

1) Importing Quicktimes for checking against a reference cut.
Who ever does an online and conforms an EDL without checking against the reference?

2) Cross frame-rate support.
Let's talk about people who accidentally cut at 30fps for what is and has always been a 24fps show. Happens ALL the time.

3) Trims, Slips, Slides, Rolls and Ripple modes
Trying to get that gunshot to match up *just* right to the offline.

4) Transitions
How many shows do you know without at least one dissolve?

5) Speed Ramps
If you don't interpret speed ramps, then the entire record side of the EDL will be screwed and your timeline will be out of sync

6) Blank Media and Unavailable media
What happens to the timeline if an EDL event doesn't match anything that is in the current "bin?"

I can go on (and on and on...)

But EDL support is not "just" EDL support. By committing to doing EDL support, a company is committing to doing conforming.

If anybody wants to prove me wrong, I'm all ears.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
The bugs aren't so subtle for me, I've gone back to red alert for now witch is way solid. I love Redcine but I can't get any work done with the current version; looking forward to the next.
Aloha
-A
 
Poi Boy said:
The bugs aren't so subtle for me, I've gone back to red alert for now witch is way solid. I love Redcine but I can't get any work done with the current version; looking forward to the next.
Aloha
-A
Click to expand...

same. it is an early beta, but VERY promising. can not use on any professional job yet.
 
Lucas,

Thanks for that post. All I want is a nice clean pull list system, and the option to output each shot to it's own sequentially named folder. If I had that I would be sooo happy and I could do all my finishing in any one of the nicer apps out there.
 
i find redcine is best suited for doing a bit of quick logging...load up everything, look for the good stuff, make some hand written notes, go back to red alert and have at it...this is purely for REEL stuff, not a full on narrative, commercial, MV or feature...

also, on set it is nice for the client to pull everything up on redcine and place a look on all of the footage.
 
good tip, thanks.
Aloha
-A
 
luki said:
But EDL support is not "just" EDL support. By committing to doing EDL support, a company is committing to doing conforming.

If anybody wants to prove me wrong, I'm all ears.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...

Lucas,

I am not going to try to prove you wrong. I agree with what you are saying. It all makes sense. I will say that I think this is a time to innovate the post production the same way the camera was intended to innovate and change production. That means making it easy to get at the DATA that has been shot.

Currently, asking RED users to finish with Scratch is only one of many potentially acceptable solutions.

Here is the logic.

There are established 2k workflows all over the world. RED is a 4K cine style camera AIMED DIRECTLY at the post conform houses that work in the 4k 2k, DI and digital film transfer world.

While RED Alert and REDCINE are great applications, there is no real solution (except for Scratch) to conform RED r3d footage.

Is it the Vision of RED to have the world conform to a completely new post standard and offer only those who buy Scratch the ease and functionality of using R3D files to their intended potential?

I hope not.

If this is the case, I would say it is a pretty big gamble.

It makes compete sense to have some kind of functionality that allows easier access (easier than is offered currently) to the R3D files and be able to PULL 4K or 2K DPX or tiff files, after the footage has been edited. Without having to do it on a shot for shot basis.

This is a large bottleneck in the current workflow and it is holding up, and could potentially stall, the whole revolution.

Everything about the way it is designed is absolutely brilliant, but without Scratch a user will find it it difficult to conform a locked picture.

This "closed system" seems a departure from the open concept of RED.

Basically if you had 300 shots in a film there is no way to do a finish without going to some kind of paper edit or the manual insertion of TC numbers, etc. in RED CINE or RED ALERT.

To me, that is unacceptable because it does not consider allowing users the easiest possible path to the highest quality footage they have shot.

Please make it easier for users to get to the DATA they need!

Because RED is a data centric workflow it needs to be adopted on MANY levels and in the early going, the footage should be EASY to work with and access and it is.

It is great system, you shoot it, you have an R3D and then QT proxies, FCP support, on and on.

Then when you want to plug it in to any 4k or 2K finish, the breaks are put on in a screeching halt. For some reason, it becomes very hard to get at the r3d files to do a conform.

As you know, a conform is a complicated thing, hundreds of shots, etc. I am not suggesting that REDCINE be a conforming tool, but maybe a batch export tool that would allow me to get a finished timeline to 2K DPX files from the R3D instead of an 8 bit FCP timeline?

I hope this opens up soon, like before there are about 1000 camera's in the market, because people are going to want to get the best quality out to their preffered, tried and true, 2K finishing workflows.

I hope RED makes that easy for them to do.

If not , I hope a third party writes a utility to make it easy to get at the frames we need for the finish.


David
 
Hey David,

All good points... but.... I think you misunderstand something.

RED has repeatedly said that Redcine WILL have a Pull List capability that allows you to take list information from FCP or Avid, import that to Redcine, and then use that information to cull footage into a timeline that can be output to DPX for any other DI application.

Let's say you're using Clipster as your conform station, and editing in FCP. The workflow would be:

1) Edit in FCP
2) Export EDL / XML / whatever it will end up being
3) Import XML / whatever it will end up being to REDCINE
4) "Conform" Pull List in REDCINE
5) Export DPX with embedded timecode in headers
6) Import DPX to Clipster
7) Import EDL to Clipster and conform from DPX

The advantage that SCRATCH gives is that you don't need steps 4 - 6 as SCRATCH natively supports R3D.

There are currently quite a few post facilities in LA working on RED projects. I know personally of the following workflows:

1) Edit FCP -> Conform SCRATCH -> Color/Finish SCRATCH
2) Edit FCP -> Conform SCRATCH -> Color/Finish Pablo
3) Edit Avid -> Conform REDCINE -> Color/Finish Lustre
4) Edit Avid -> Conform REDCINE -> Color/Finish Resolve
5) Edit FCP -> Color/Finish FCP.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
Lucas,

May be Assimilate can make a limited and cheaper version of Scratch.
It would accept only RED footage as input. No DPX, Cineon etc.

Priit
 
luki said:
Hey David,

All good points... but.... I think you misunderstand something.

RED has repeatedly said that Redcine WILL have a Pull List capability that allows you to take list information from FCP or Avid, import that to Redcine, and then use that information to cull footage into a timeline that can be output to DPX for any other DI application.

Let's say you're using Clipster as your conform station, and editing in FCP. The workflow would be:

1) Edit in FCP
2) Export EDL / XML / whatever it will end up being
3) Import XML / whatever it will end up being to REDCINE
4) "Conform" Pull List in REDCINE
5) Export DPX with embedded timecode in headers
6) Import DPX to Clipster
7) Import EDL to Clipster and conform from DPX

The advantage that SCRATCH gives is that you don't need steps 4 - 6 as SCRATCH natively supports R3D.

There are currently quite a few post facilities in LA working on RED projects. I know personally of the following workflows:

1) Edit FCP -> Conform SCRATCH -> Color/Finish SCRATCH
2) Edit FCP -> Conform SCRATCH -> Color/Finish Pablo
3) Edit Avid -> Conform REDCINE -> Color/Finish Lustre
4) Edit Avid -> Conform REDCINE -> Color/Finish Resolve
5) Edit FCP -> Color/Finish FCP.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...

Lucas,

Thanks so much for the clarity. This is the best. I think I am getting bogged down in language.

I think we should make your last post a sticky because it makes things perfectly clear.

Just last week Rob Lohman confirmed this exactly what you were saying too, but somehow I thought something else was being said here.

This is great news and I appreciate your reply. It makes total sense. Onlines are tricky enough, this will make it much easier.

Thanks once again.

David
 
priitp said:
Lucas,

May be Assimilate can make a limited and cheaper version of Scratch.
It would accept only RED footage as input. No DPX, Cineon etc.
Click to expand...

Right. And maybe Ferrari can make a limited and cheaper version that only has a 5 gallon gas tank. Or maybe Gulfstream can make a limited and cheaper business jet that only has a 1000 mile range. Or perhaps Apple can make a limited and cheaper iPhone that only allows local calls, for the maybe 200 people who might actually want that.

Geez, guys, get off of the "we want cheap stuff across the board regardless of the product, the company, their business plan, or their user base." If you can't afford something, it doesn't mean the company that sells it is obligated to lower its prices so that you can. It does mean that you either go to a supplier that has it, or you find another way to do it. Simple.
 
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