Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

pc workstation

G

geoff tompkinson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.gtimage.com
Hi,

As I hope to be taking delivery of two Red's early next year I'm trying to put together a specification for a pc-based After Effects workstation.

I'm no expert on the hardware side of things and need some help choosing the correct combination of Processor, Graphics card, disc arrays etc..

I need to be able to work with HD file stacks (uncompressed Tiffs) in such a way that scrubbing through a clip is as near to realtime as I can get it.

I normally only work with single clips of between 10 and 40 seconds length. I don't do any conventional video editing so don't use Premiere or any other similar packages.

My final HD renders are going out 1080 24p Aja Kona Codec 10bit.

Is there anyone out there who could suggest the best combination of components for me to be looking at.

I would like whatever system I put together to work well with the Dell 30" monitor and I have no problem with making the whole pc a dell based system, if that is an option.

Do I go Quad core Xeon, or Intel core 2 extreme ?

Do I go top end GeForce, or top end Quadro fx ?

Do I need 15,000 rpm hard drives in a raid array ?

etc etc.

Thanks for any advice

Geoff
 
Hello Geoff

I expect to have a RED in the next month (give or take) and will be researching a similar solution. Once I have some answers, I will be happy to share what I have learned.

For now, I would expect that a dual processor Xeon motherboard, high end Nvidia graphics card and a SATA raid array should be adequate for 4k work but until tested, can't be certain.

Kevin Halverson
 
We just bought a HD Octoflex:
http://www.1beyond.com/products/hdoctoflex.asp

to test in our After Effects suites...it runs circles around everything else we have. I am about to place an order for 6 more to upgrade all our ae workstations
 
Hi Kevin,

That sounds good - perhaps you could post the specification you finally settle-on together with some idea of the performance you are getting out of it.

I look forward to it.

Thanks
 
digitalfx said:
We just bought a HD Octoflex:
http://www.1beyond.com/products/hdoctoflex.asp

to test in our After Effects suites...it runs circles around everything else we have. I am about to place an order for 6 more to upgrade all our ae workstations
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link - what is the exact spec of the system you are so pleased with - there are a lot of options in this link.

Cheers
 
BOXX >> The best PC ever for 4K workflow

RTX_Overview_Oct2006.jpg


Scratch_Overview.jpg

Scratch - resolution independent 1K, 2K and 4K

Speedgrade_Overview.jpg

SpeedGrade HD

BOXX >> LINK >>>
 
There is no limitation I can imagine for a configuration to work with Dell 30'' monitor.

For the config, it really depends on the budget.....

BOXX has very powerfull workstation, but that's a US based company, and it is very expensive.

In my experience DELL and HP are not cheaper that Apple for a similar config.

Then there is smaller integrator, which can be very interesting.

Otherwise you can build it yourself.
When I build my own config, I never buy the top end new hardware, as it is always overpriced.
I think if you are serious with building pc by yourself and are limited by the budget, you can go for a single cpu motherboard (with the latest Intel chipset, which is presently the P35 for North bridge and the ICH9R for the south bridge), with one quad core Intel cpu, 8 gig of RAM, running Windows XP 64 bit.
For REDCINE on windows, take a Nvidia GeForce.

And for the raid array, I would recommend to buy a good contoller with a lot of RAM (2 gig), and plug as many HDD you can to it, but no need for 15K rpm HDD. For exemple a 8 disc raid 0 array, or better a 16 disc raid 50 array would be good option. You can also use the ICH9R for raid, but then you will be limited to the number of SATA connection on your motherboard. Anyway you can use the ICH9R for system drive and for some internal drives.

An Aja Xena video card for monitoring and capture.

And to give more powerfull to the config you can without worry overclock your cpu, ram and bus. Sure it is really stable if you don't go too far...
We have buildt 3D render boxes with Intel e4300 cpu which we overclocked to 3.3 GHertz, instead of the initial 1.8 GHertz, and these computer are rendering everyday (using Indigo for archi render) till we build them without any problem. We tested this with a blender render file test and it was only 2 times slower than an Apple Octocore.....for approximately 1 tenth of the price!

antoine.
 
Sound good in words but the reality is another story.
First you are limited in use of many different applications etc..."certified haardware" means something in professional world.
 
Sanjin, I can certify you that our 3D boxes are rendering professional work every day that is beeing sold.
What do you mean by "certified hardware"? Is RED certifying Apple, BOXX, HP or DELL computer to work with REDCINE and RED workflow, that I was not aware? Otherwise I don't think you will get support, from let's say DELL, to make a config to work with it.

Or am I missing something.

antoine.
 
Geoff, my plan is to wait until the very last possible moment I HAVE to have the hardware for post, and then probably go to DELL or some other WYOIWYG (what you order is what you get) manufacturer and get the best multi-processor, mobo, graphics card available... that I can afford. It's about time for a faster/better processor to be released by Intel, and possibly AMD processors will be known to work in the workflow by then. I'm just thinking the longer you hold out, the better opportunity you will have to buy at the beginning of a processor's life cycle than at the end of the current ones.
 
Apple apps are working on Apple Mac OS X and Apple hardware.

BOXX and HP both have certified high end apps to work with their hardware.

DELL I do not know.

High end apps I mean stuff like we nedd now a la Scratch, SpeedGrade HD etc...

I do not like a risk to invest in something that would not work when I need.

Or I am not rich enough to buy cheap things.

When deciding for an investment, first I look at the "return of investment" .
 
Sanjin, for Scratch I do know serious integrator that are certified by Assimilate, one in France and one in Germany (Münich). These integrators are using motherboard such as Tyan or SuperMicro. BOXX has also certified computer for Scratch, but guess what it is really more expensive and support is in the US, which is not very efficient.

I agree you should always look to what are you needs and return investment. If you want to edit with FCP, I would recomand an Apple computer, but OSx86 runs on any quite new pc hardware...obviously no support with that :-)

But the post is about a PC workstation for RED workflow... So if you are not hardware expert, go for DELL or HP or BOXX, all will work with REDCINE (as any quite new computer).
RED stated that on windows OS graphic card has to be Nvidia. I would go for a GeForce if you don't have a very specific need for a Quadro (for expemple for Scratch you should get the Quadro 4500 SDI or better the 5600 SDI, but that's about 5'000 euro just for the card).

Looking forward to hear of config that handle REDCODE native editing.

antoine
 
Okay,

A lot of good information for me to consider - thanks a lot!

A specific question for the processor experts out there - what are the pro's and cons of a 2x4 core Xeon E5345 versus a core 2 Quad-core QX6800

Bearing in mind that I'm mainly working with After Effects at 2k of HD resolutions.

I don't really understand the difference between the Xeon and Extreme processors.

Thanks
 
laboprod said:
...Looking forward to hear of config that handle REDCODE native editing.

antoine
Click to expand...

Me too and especially upcoming release of Apple REDCODE native workflow:
Ingesting>>Converting>>REDCINE+
Editing>>FCP+
ColorCorrection/Grading>>APPLE COLOR+
Confirming>>CINEMA TOOLS+
Output>>APPLE COMPRESSOR.

Hardware:
Apple MacPro 8 core
Medea/Avid RTR 2TB /9 GB memory
RAID+ATTO ExpressPCI UL5D dual-channel Ultra320 host adapter
Graphic card ATI Radeon 1900 XT
Video card AJA Kona 3 or Blackmagic Eclipse.
2K monitoring Apple 30" Cinema Display+Blackmagic HD/2KLink Pro
 
laboprod said:
There is no limitation I can imagine for a configuration to work with Dell 30'' monitor.

For the config, it really depends on the budget.....

BOXX has very powerfull workstation, but that's a US based company, and it is very expensive.

In my experience DELL and HP are not cheaper that Apple for a similar config.

Then there is smaller integrator, which can be very interesting.

Otherwise you can build it yourself.
When I build my own config, I never buy the top end new hardware, as it is always overpriced.
I think if you are serious with building pc by yourself and are limited by the budget, you can go for a single cpu motherboard (with the latest Intel chipset, which is presently the P35 for North bridge and the ICH9R for the south bridge), with one quad core Intel cpu, 8 gig of RAM, running Windows XP 64 bit.
For REDCINE on windows, take a Nvidia GeForce.

And for the raid array, I would recommend to buy a good contoller with a lot of RAM (2 gig), and plug as many HDD you can to it, but no need for 15K rpm HDD. For exemple a 8 disc raid 0 array, or better a 16 disc raid 50 array would be good option. You can also use the ICH9R for raid, but then you will be limited to the number of SATA connection on your motherboard. Anyway you can use the ICH9R for system drive and for some internal drives.

An Aja Xena video card for monitoring and capture.

And to give more powerfull to the config you can without worry overclock your cpu, ram and bus. Sure it is really stable if you don't go too far...
We have buildt 3D render boxes with Intel e4300 cpu which we overclocked to 3.3 GHertz, instead of the initial 1.8 GHertz, and these computer are rendering everyday (using Indigo for archi render) till we build them without any problem. We tested this with a blender render file test and it was only 2 times slower than an Apple Octocore.....for approximately 1 tenth of the price!

antoine.
Click to expand...
Antoine is right - I used to run a computer company myself and if you know the hardware you'd realise that the big name integrators often use either identical hardware at best, or lesser hardware at worst, than what I could build for a fifth of the price.

Currently I am running on an Intel Quad core Q6600 (stock speed 2.4GHz) with 4GB RAM and an ASUS P5B-Deluxe motherboard. This system is overclocked to 3.2GHz with the front side bus at 400MHz (from its stock speed of 266MHz) and is perfectly stable in all applications. It's more a matter of understanding exactly what overclocking is and how to make sure all the components stay within their specified tolerances. I run Windows XP 32bit on this but as Antoine says, Windows XP64 would be the sweet spot if you wanted to make use of more than the 4GB I have in my system. Add the GeForce 8800GTX (also in my system) and as many hard drives as you can fit in, and you have a superb system for around 20% of what the big names cost. The secret is finding someone who can do this for you - my advice is to look at builders who specialise in gaming systems and then modify those specs with things like RAID controllers and ingest cards as necessary. HTH

Paul
 
geoff tompkinson said:
Okay,

A lot of good information for me to consider - thanks a lot!

A specific question for the processor experts out there - what are the pro's and cons of a 2x4 core Xeon E5345 versus a core 2 Quad-core QX6800

Bearing in mind that I'm mainly working with After Effects at 2k of HD resolutions.

I don't really understand the difference between the Xeon and Extreme processors.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Geoff, I'm not tech savvy enough to answer your question, and those who are are answering their oun questions. Like you, I'm just wondering if the Extreme processors aren't optimized for gaming, while the Xeons are more suited for rendering work? That is the way I will approach the choice when the time comes.
 
number6 said:
Geoff, I'm not tech savvy enough to answer your question, and those who are are answering their oun questions. Like you, I'm just wondering if the Extreme processors aren't optimized for gaming, while the Xeons are more suited for rendering work? That is the way I will approach the choice when the time comes.
Click to expand...

The Xeons are optimized for server work. I would want to see it benchmarked with the actual programs to say which is better suited for rendering. I would not be surprised if the new Opterons actually turn out to be best for rendering - the previous crop would usually beat the previous crop of Xeon at anything to do with huge amounts of data. Intel may have leapfrogged AMD in raw computing, but I think AMD still has the edge in data throughput until Intel manage to make a processor with onboard memory controller. You will need lots of memory, and it is nice to have a system which does not force memory access and disk transfers through the same bottleneck.

In any case, I would recommend to look into a water cooled system - it is more efficient, more reliable, and a lot quieter. For this kind of system, the extra cost is not all that significant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top