Payment:

[Rob Powell]

I bet the real reason that people want to use credit cards is to collect on all the various gimmicks that the credit card companies use to reel you in. Cash back, airline tickets, bonus points....

This is probably truer than people will admit. I'd pick up the bonus points if RED allowed CC payment! Why not? But I think the bottom line is that CC's are "easy" debt. The banks flood you with offers all the time, and sometime with good terms (0% for 12 mos.). So I understand that it is just easier to use this form of credit.

If, as some state, they "have the money," there is no legit reason not to pay by check or wire other than to get some type of CC bonus (see quote above).


FYI for those of you who do not ship valuable items frequently, RED's responsibility ends at their warehouse door. Damage during shipment is the responsibility of the carrier. So you better have insurance or you will be out of luck. HORROR STORY--I had Fedex smash an Anvil case with a $50K Digibeta VTR inside. (There were tire tracks on the case) They refused to pay the claim stating that "it had been improperly packed.":ranting2:

RA Post

 

[Omnius]

.....
FYI for those of you who do not ship valuable items frequently, RED's responsibility ends at their warehouse door. Damage during shipment is the responsibility of the carrier. So you better have insurance or you will be out of luck. HORROR STORY--I had Fedex smash an Anvil case with a $50K Digibeta VTR inside. (There were tire tracks on the case) They refused to pay the claim stating that "it had been improperly packed.":ranting2:

RA Post

Ouch!
Sincerely. . I feel this strange pain in my gut just thinking about it.
Such loss. That would have broken my heart.

INSURANCE INSURANCE INSURANCE

 

[canred]

I have zero problem with the payment methods. I hate credit cards and have only one that I use for travel or emergencies. I paid for my deposit with a wire transfer and will pay the balance the same way. As for not trusting RED, how long does anyone think they would be in business if they stiffed someone? This company did not come from a background that warrants this kind of concern. If I were a RED team member I would be offended by this sort of suggestion. I have started and run two successful businesses and I would take this sort of suggestion very seriously! Until there is some evidence to corroborate underhanded dealings, I suggest everyone give RED the benefit of the doubt they deserve.

As for payment methods, RED is a company that has a product for sale. They have been very forthright about the product and time frames warts and all. They have a right to determine what payment methods they will except. As customers we have a right to except those terms or find the nearest exit and use it! RED has always stated that the deposits are fully refundable and I've not heard of any problems with refunds. Most companies use deposits as a means to cover themselves in case a customer cancels an order. In REDS case they seem to be using the deposit as merely a place holder and thats really nice for their customers. I appreciate the work they are doing and look forward to receiving my RED as soon as possible. Most of us will also have considerable time to get feedback from the early reservation holders gving us time to evaluate the product and it's suitability for our purposes.


Tom

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

HORROR STORY--I had Fedex smash an Anvil case with a $50K Digibeta VTR inside. (There were tire tracks on the case) They refused to pay the claim stating that "it had been improperly packed.":ranting2:

Ouch... Something wasn't handled properly there... It should have been insured at some point by someone.

I ship lots and lots of expensive items of all sizes. It is not entirely true that someone is clear of responsibility for an item as soon as it leaves their premises. This is a muddy area though and laws differ from one place to another, even between states in the US. In most situations, the responsibility for the item lies with the shipping company and whoever contracted that shipping company (the sender in most cases). Many mail order vendors will try to make the customer eat the shipping charges on items that were received in damaged condition. This is completely unethical, but it happens all the time. Good vendors (Amazon, B&H, etc.. don't do this). Shipping insurance is always a good idea when shipping anything of value. Be sure proper insurance is actually paid for as part of the shipping expense, or even procured through a third party. Simply declaring a value with the shipper doesn't always mean that it's insured. In your "horror story" with UPS crushing the $50K VTR, it most certainly wasn't insured properly. UPS does not typically insure items with that sort of value -- except for their airmail envelopes and small overnight boxes for documents or precious gems/metals -- the most common insurance claim is usually theft in those situations. Third party coverage is almost always needed and desired because UPS insurance rates are insanely high. BTW: I've received a few of the dreaded tire-mark packages myself.

 

[R. Gonzales]

Wow.


It seems that the only people who have the real problem with the above methods of payment are people who probably need to take a second look at their priorities in life, no offense, but when I hear people bleating and complaining about not being able to use the BANKS money to complete payment for this sort of equipment, and then turn around and say that they do in fact have the money with which to make payment, it all sounds like a whole lot of Bovine Excrement to me, if you know what I mean, and I'm not trying to be mean in saying that, so please keep an open and objective mind with what I'm trying to say here.

ominous |?äm?n?s| adjective giving the impression that something bad or unpleasant is going to happen; threatening; inauspicious

My real problem is with some of the language being used to describe those who complain. Some of the coments seem to sugest that there are some who sit in an omnipotent position knowing the financing of others. And then casting judgment in the guise of an opinion.

People have the right to complain, so let them and don't judge.

It's Red's choice how they wish to sell their product. And it's the customer's choice if they wish to purchase that product.

Kind Regards


Method

 

[Teague Kennedy]

HORROR STORY--I had Fedex smash an Anvil case with a $50K Digibeta VTR inside. (There were tire tracks on the case) They refused to pay the claim stating that "it had been improperly packed.":ranting2:

RA Post

I payed for insurance and had a Beta SP deck damaged by Fed Ex and they refused to pay because my wife signed when they dropped it off. We took them to court and won. If there is ANY indication that there is damage make a note of it when you sign. (Or take the thing out while the guy is standing there and plug it in.) These shipping companies do not play nice even if you pay for insurance.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Who loves their insurance?

Who loves their insurance?

All these stories are making me feel very fortunate that I live close enough to RED HQ to pick up my kit in person.

My takeaway from this is if I get a package that looks anything short of pristine I will take several digital snaps of the box prior to opening just in case there's a problem. I would think that tire tracks would make the shipping company look bad, but, in the distorted world of insurance - who knows...

Does anybody out there have a positive story about insurance stepping up and covering them? I am looking to upgrade my insurance to a carrier that has more experience in our business. My current policy is with a company that asks me questions that reveal their ignorance and I fear that if I did need to make a claim I might be in for a rude surprise in the fine print.

Does anybody have a strategy for covering the true value of the RedOne in the first 6 months when it is for all intents and purposes "irreplaceable"?

 

[Rob Powell]

HORRO STORY Postscript--Just so you don't think I'm a complete idiot and took a bath on my $50K VTR. The problem came back to Sony who had shipped the deck back to me (after repairs) and did not insure it. Sony quit insuring equip becuz Fedex and UPS would seldom honor the claims, (as in my case), so they "self-insure." Thus, Sony paid to replace my DigiBeta and Anvil case. Happy ending.

RA Post

 

[JustinGD]

Does anybody out there have a positive story about insurance stepping up and covering them?

Yes I do, and I've also got a bridge for sale!

I wish this topic hadn't been brought to my attention. I'm still 4 or 5 months away, but now I'm freaking out about how I'm going to get my camera and protect it. What if someone wants to steal it? Is there a spot on the camera I can chain to a doberman?

 

[Craig Meadows]

For large purchases we always use either a commercial bank loan or one of the many broadcast finance companies out there. If you are a commercial entity (i.e., real business with a tax i.d. no.) securing and paying off credit this way helps to establish and maintain your commercial credit score/history for future loans for bigger things other than gear; like real estate, vehicles, etc.

The bank loan rather than a leasing company is often the better way to go as the interest is usually more agreeable, although you can negotiate rates to some extent with either. There are many tax advantages to leasing. Often a personal guarantee is required. Just make sure you understand the end of lease terms. Usually you can walk away at the end of the lease or purchase the leased item for either a 10% buyout, $1 buyout, or current market value buyout.

However, my personal Visa/MasterCard bank is always sending me checks to use with the card. Write a check to yourself with the cc check, deposit it in your regular checking account then pay for RED with that.

 

[Greg M]

WOW- too much stress...take a deep breath, I have been shipping gear for 25 years and I dont have any horror stories.

Equipment insurance covers your gear in transit...if you can afford the camera you can afford insurance.
Insurance is not an option, especially if you are taking out a loan. But even if you are paying cash, insurance should be part of your business plan...if its not you shouldnt be spending this kind of money.

 

[Sean]

ominous |?äm?n?s| adjective giving the impression that something bad or unpleasant is going to happen; threatening; inauspicious

My real problem is with some of the language being used to describe those who complain. Some of the coments seem to sugest that there are some who sit in an omnipotent position knowing the financing of others. And then casting judgment in the guise of an opinion.

People have the right to complain, so let them and don't judge.

It's Red's choice how they wish to sell their product. And it's the customer's choice if they wish to purchase that product.

Kind Regards


Method

Yup. I totally agree. I don't know why some folks seem to feel it's fitting to prescribe the "business model" and financing plan of others like it's some sort of scripture from heaven. There's some really good advice and ideas in this thread on how to pay for and get safe delivery of your Red Camera! But there's some really high-handed and somewhat condescending preaching. In the end, may the best film win. ;-)

 

[JustinGD]

I wanted to use a credit card and pay it off the same day. Most Visa cards (as far as I know) cover purchases against everything (loss, damage, theft) for 90 days from purchase. That is a big deal, especially when getting something shipped.

(sorry if this point has already been brought up, I havn't read all 20 pages of this thread)

 

[Greg M]

I wanted to use a credit card and pay it off the same day. Most Visa cards (as far as I know) cover purchases against everything (loss, damage, theft) for 90 days from purchase. That is a big deal, especially when getting something shipped.

(sorry if this point has already been brought up, I havn't read all 20 pages of this thread)

Your insurance policy will cover all of this. Also I always insure my shipments, they generally get better treatment this way as they are marked in the system as "high-value".

 

[Rob Powell]

Your insurance policy will cover all of this. Also I always insure my shipments, they generally get better treatment this way as they are marked in the system as "high-value".

I've had several insurance vendors over the years and, in my experience, only true "production insurance" covers common carriers. So, while you are correct, many "equipment" policies would not cover the gear in transit. Be sure to read the fine print.

Regarding VISA covering the item in transit, I'm skeptical. Have you read the fine print in those little booklets they send out? Maybe they will, but I'd double check before counting on it. Plus, it would likely only cover up to the amount charged i.e. $7500 in this case.

RA Post

 

[Greg M]

I've had several insurance vendors over the years and, in my experience, only true "production insurance" covers common carriers. So, while you are correct, many "equipment" policies would not cover the gear in transit. Be sure to read the fine print.

Regarding VISA covering the item in transit, I'm skeptical. Have you read the fine print in those little booklets they send out? Maybe they will, but I'd double check before counting on it. Plus, it would likely only cover up to the amount charged i.e. $7500 in this case.

RA Post

Well yes...production insurance is what I meant!!
Dont go cheap on insurance, unless you like to gamble.

 

[Rob Powell]

Well yes...production insurance is what I meant!!
Dont go cheap on insurance, unless you like to gamble.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know the difference. (Poor grammatical structure). Was making a more general statement for others who may have never bought insurance or be aware of the difference.

RA Post

 

[Omnius]

ominous |?äm?n?s| adjective giving the impression that something bad or unpleasant is going to happen; threatening; inauspicious

Dyslexia. Noun.
A general term for a disorder involving the difficulty to read or understand words, letters or other symbols.
"O" "M" "N" "I" "U" "S". . . Omnius.
Obviously you read "ominous" by mistake oster_oops:

People have the right to complain. . . .

That is absolutely correct my friend, people do have the right to complain.
I never questioned anyones rights to anything. I just don't see the logic in complaining because it's not going to get you anywhere, or anyone else for that matter.

There's an old axiom that I believe is very appropriate in this sort of situation. . . "Deal With It".

Maybe someone should start a forum specifically for complaints under the heading of "Complaint Department". I don't know.
Would that be beneficial to you?

I just find it rather silly and unproductive to complain about a particular situation when your complaint is unlikely to change the outcome of that particular situation, especially when you have the ultimate choice. Either accept the way things are and find a method with which to successfully navigate within established parameters, or turn around and walk away from that which is causing you so much anguish that you feel the need to complain about it.

What I think people do not have the right to do is to attempt to insinuate that RED is some sort of dodgy, illegitimate, fly by night, snake oil scam operation because they won't take someone's Credit Card as full payment for a very incredible and significant piece of equipment.

I sincerely hope everyone who has set their hearts on getting this camera ends up seeing their hopes and dreams come true, and in the end they will be proud owners of a very beautiful piece of hardware.

Complaining doesn't do anyone any good, though it does make for some very interesting reading.

 

[Brook Willard]

Why the fighting? Can't we all just... get along?

 

[Andrew Benz]

ps.. just so you know.. my tech stuff will be round the clock i am a machine.. i eat breath and sleep red.. so rest assured

Hey Zakaree, congratulations on your new job, I am really happy for you my man.:usd: Not only do you get to work with the most badass camera... you get to work w/ Kelly and Noelle... So how are the New Oakley "Blinders" working?

Cheers---Andrew