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Nikon or Canon better for RED?

Keith Nealy

Keith Nealy

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I am thinking about upgrading my still gear with a good DSLR.

I have used Nikon for 35 years and have several bodies, motors, and lenses.

In terms of the usage for RED, ie lenses, etc. Are Nikon lenses going to be as useful as Canon?

I know in general it is a Ford vs. Chevy comparison.

I've heard talk of Birger mounts for Canon lenses and I get sense that more accessories may be Canon friendly.

If that is going to be the case I may switch.

Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks.

aloha,

Keith
 
BBonChevy.jpg
 
I have been shooting with a Canon 5d dslr for the past year. The Canon digital camera are awesome! As are the L lenses. I hope that Birger can build a mount for the Red that will allow the use of the EOS lenses with Red. The Canon RAW files allow for an amazing amount of manipulation in Photoshop and I can only hope that the Red Raw will be the same for motion files.
 
Birger is also making a nikon lens, so they're still tied on that front. Evin has said that nikon makes the best wide lenses, which are going to be important on a digital sensor, which sometimes have problems with vignetting.

Evin Grant said:
Here is my read on the two. (This is my subjective opinion based on 10 years being primarily a Nikon shooter but having shot my share of Canon as well)

Sharpness: Depends on the lenses, both have gems and duds.
Build: Nikon AI & AIS best, Nikon Pro AF, Canon L series and FD tied.
Color: Nikon-Red/Cyan bias, Canon Green/Magenta bias (This is very subtle)
Contrast: Nikon-punchy, Canon-medium to soft
Strengths:
Nikon- Wides, DX Zooms (The Canon 10-22 is a contender here though), MF/AF compatability, exotics (8mm FE/300 f2)
Canon- IS super teles, tilt/shift lenses, In lens AF motors (AFS Nikkors now have this too)
Weaknesses:
Nikon- Focus wrong direction
Canon- Lack of aperture ring (True for DX/G Nikkors as well)

I personally just liked the "look" of Nikkors better, but I'll never say Canon doesn't make good lenses.
Click to expand...

i'm trying to find his list of top 10 optics houses...I think its a few pages later...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1122&page=4
 
PerfectOptics said:
Birger is also making a nikon lens, so they're still tied on that front. Evin has said that nikon makes the best wide lenses, which are going to be important on a digital sensor, which sometimes have problems with vignetting.

i'm trying to find his list of top 10 optics houses...I think its a few pages later...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1122&page=4
Click to expand...

BUT...the Red is of a similar size to a normal DSLR and thus will have a crop factor of 1.6x, thus mitigating any advantages of the Nikon at the wide angles since you won't be touching the wider parts like you would on a full frame or 35 still.

As for the original post, whether Nikons or Canon are better will hinge on how good the Birger mount is. If it's as good as I think/hope it will, then Canon wins (at least until the Nikon mount is released), but if it falls short, then Nikons are better because you can go all manual and use the $500 mount from Red.
 
NIKON rules!

...And so does my Ford.
 
Thanks, that indeed was a great thread, but it seems the final answer is not in yet.
 
It does not matter what mount is on the camera (short of a device that has seperate optical componets in it) the lens be it Canon or Nikon or whatever is only going to be as good as the lens you mount on it.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
BUT...the Red is of a similar size to a normal DSLR and thus will have a crop factor of 1.6x, thus mitigating any advantages of the Nikon at the wide angles since you won't be touching the wider parts like you would on a full frame or 35 still.

As for the original post, whether Nikons or Canon are better will hinge on how good the Birger mount is. If it's as good as I think/hope it will, then Canon wins (at least until the Nikon mount is released), but if it falls short, then Nikons are better because you can go all manual and use the $500 mount from Red.
Click to expand...

Blair previously brought up a question pertaining to the 1.6x cropfactor.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=50037&postcount=16

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen
Point of information: to my knowledge there is roughly a 1.6 conversion factor with the Mysterium chip @4K. Evin or one of the other lens mavens posted a chart about 3 months ago if you want some details. I have been assuming that a 15mm lens on the RedOne will feel like a 23mm"

The conversion factor is only if your frame of reference is 8-perf 35mm still camera photography. If you are used to shooting in 35mm cine, like Super-35, then you are already familiar with the field of views of an 18mm, etc. because the RED sensor is about the same size as the Super-35 cine frame.
__________________" David Mullen, ASC
 
IMO if one was really "better" then one would fade away ?
either lens will get you a good image .. many will prefer one over the other ..
back in 1973 i bought a 39.95 400mm f5.6 lens and it must be the best because i've never have replaced it .. now there might be 400mm lens that can do test charts better and if you magnify image 400% you might see weird things BUT hey the normal size image looks great - these newer lens are a bit too sharp for my taste ...
remember in the end we don't stare for minutes at one still frame - the bottom line is how it looks at 24fps or 29.97 or 23.976, or 30fps or xxxx.........
 
Thanks for all your help guys,

I found a ton of useful infomation in other threads.
 
The question wasn't really about quality of lenses it was about if one lens system will be favored over the other by third party sources like Birger.

The question of Canon having internal focus motors and Nikon not having them may be an issue for some future applications like autofocus.

If one system "talked" to RED via protocols better than the other and became a favorite - that might be a deciding issue.

I wouldn't dream of getting into a lense quality conversation. I'll leave that to Evin and the "Glass Geeks."
 
I think either Nikon or Canon DSLR systems will compliment RED just fine. Birger is making both Canon and Nikon mounts for RED... The Canon mount will be available first.

I don't think either system truly has an advantage, both are very similar and have their strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't start selling off any Nikon gear to buy Canon stuff or vice versa.
 
Ah Ha! The crux of the biscuit! Using Nikon or Canon lenses on the RED is
more akin to using it on your DSLR. Of course a still camera lens will not
have as much control as a true Cine Lens. But when you stick a lens on a
device that filters the light and then has to go though a fixed mount lens
is just well - as you say - "it wasn't fun having to add all those extra lights".

I tried the Redrock and the Brevis on the HVX and unless you were
shooting outdoors in bright sunlight or could afford to hire a grip
truck with 2K HMI's it just was not that practical. I have seen some
great work done with those devices but it takes skill and practice
and a sense of knowing what the image was going to look like.

But jumping to the RED will be like driving a Ferrari flat-out vs. your
Japanese import.
 
the light loss is caused by the ground glass that is used in the redrock and all of the other small format to 35mm lens adapters on which the 35mm sized image is resolved. It has nothing to do with the lenses themselves. Since the red sensor is cine 35mm sized (or nikon dx/canon 30d-ish) the 35mm lenses resolve right on the sensor as they would in the dslrs or on the film plane of motion picture cameras. So, no light loss.
 
You won't have light loss issues like that with RED and a proper lens mount. The Nikon and Canon mounts from RED and from Birger actually replace the front mounting point on the camera. There is no "adapter" or glass or optics involved. So a Nikon or Canon lens mounted on RED with the proper lens mount will still exhibit the properties of its rated f-stop. A Nikkor 50mm f1.2 AIS is going to be quite a bit faster than a PL mount RED 50mm prime at f2.8 / T3.

Lighting with the HVX isn't that fun at all, especially when you have a 35mm adapter on there soaking up another 1 to 1.5 stops.

Edit> I took too long to type and post this. Two others beat me to the response.
 
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