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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HV20 1920x1080 4.2.2 Uncompressed

Thanks Jeff for the first hand advice. I tend to trust that more than what some someone trying to sell me a cable says. And its good news to. With 500ft that opens up what you can do even more.

Also just thinking if you are outside some kind of car/truck/van with a high quality powercoverter would really come in handy. You could keep your capture computer in the airconditioning while you shoot. Almost like a mini news van. Of course it would not work for ever setup but if you plan right it would work for a lot of them.
 
Hi everyone. After a lot of fooling around I have come up with this:

It's a DIY laptop that takes 3 hard drives, Samsung 64G solid states, with a fast enough RAID array to take an Intensity in RAW at their claimed 119MB/s. An adapter for theExpressCard slot takes a PCIe card with an Intensity in it with a powersupply for the PCIe adapter setup at under 3 lbs.

So duct tape the Magma, Intensity and Powersupply to the laptop and plug in the Canon HV20 and we should be good to go (RAW) uncompressed for about $6500 including camera.

The Hardware:

DIY laptop with 3 hard drives and RAID and ExpressCard slot.

http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=3620

Samsungs 64G solid state hard drives. 3 should write at 135MB/s in RAID0

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070327_0000332936

Magma PCIe ExpressCard adapter for the Intensity.

http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpress/expressbox1/index.html

Nice little power supply for above

http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalo...r-232391&cid=0AB4923490A4A42F3B0D05F3E2DDDE7B

Oh and an Intensity Pro

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

A nice addition for dumping the laptop to SATA drives, an ExpressCard SATA controller.

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/adexc34-2e.asp



I dunno looks good to me ... what do you think?
 
PenGun said:
So duct tape the Magma, Intensity and Powersupply to the laptop and plug in the Canon HV20 and we should be good to go RAW for about $6500 including camera.
Click to expand...

You cannot get RAW output from a Canon HV20 no matter what you do in terms of recording. RAW output is the data direct from a Bayer sensor. This is not available in an HV20. The only output available is HD video. Whether it's compressed (using HDV) or uncompressed (via the HDMI port) is not the issue. It is processed video, not RAW data. You're confusing the issue by referring to it as something it's not. The only digital motion picture cameras currently available or soon to be available that allow access to RAW data are the Red, the Silicon Imaging camera, and the Dalsa, at least as far as I know.
 
mmost said:
You cannot get RAW output from a Canon HV20 no matter what you do in terms of recording. RAW output is the data direct from a Bayer sensor. This is not available in an HV20. The only output available is HD video. Whether it's compressed (using HDV) or uncompressed (via the HDMI port) is not the issue. It is processed video, not RAW data. You're confusing the issue by referring to it as something it's not. The only digital motion picture cameras currently available or soon to be available that allow access to RAW data are the Red, the Silicon Imaging camera, and the Dalsa, at least as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. I have seen the discussion. OK seeing RAW is a DSLR term we'll have to use ... "uncompressed".

Is that OK? Or am I in the wrong place.
 
Great link for the cables, Jeff! I figure if their cables are good enough for you, then they should easily serve my needs.
 
Yes uncompressed is more correct and full size. Still a good gain in image quality going directly out instead of to tape.
 
mmost said:
The only digital motion picture cameras currently available or soon to be available that allow access to RAW data are the Red, the Silicon Imaging camera, and the Dalsa, at least as far as I know.
Click to expand...

And the Reel Stream hacks to the DVX100 ("Andromeda") and upcoming hack into the HVX200 ("Hydra"), which is linear data (I think 12-bit with the DVX100 and 14-bit with the HVX200) off of each CCD after the A-D conversion but before the DSP. Unless the term "RAW" only applies to Bayer-filtered images.
 
number6 said:
Great link for the cables, Jeff! I figure if their cables are good enough for you, then they should easily serve my needs.
Click to expand...

They're good cables, or at least I've had good luck with them. I've found their component cables to be just OK. The "fancy connector" ones are usually pretty good. The cheaper component cables are almost as good, but the connectors on them really suck and often have a loose fit. Their HDMI and DVI cables have been top-notch though and out of hundreds, I've only had 2 or 3 fail on me. I've had more failures with bigger recognized brands like Etherial or Liberty.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
And the Reel Stream hacks to the DVX100 ("Andromeda") and upcoming hack into the HVX200 ("Hydra"), which is linear data (I think 12-bit with the DVX100 and 14-bit with the HVX200) off of each CCD after the A-D conversion but before the DSP. Unless the term "RAW" only applies to Bayer-filtered images.
Click to expand...

The Andromeda is very clever, but what it delivers on output is 4:4:4 reconstructed video, not the individual r, g, and b records. RAW data should, ideally, contain the untouched records of each of the three primary colors, which is essentially what you get when you record the data directly from a Bayer sensor. Reconstruction of the image is done after the data is saved, and is done directly from that data. That is not what is done in the Andromeda, but I would certainly concede that it's the next best thing, seeing as how the data is basically unprocessed in terms of levels, even if it is already reconstructed.
 
Doesn't the Andromeda record the output directly off the A-->D convertors? This lets it extract a quasi-HD image... each sensor is 720x480 but the quasi-HD image is bigger than that (1540x984).

I don't believe the image is reconstructed in the camera.
 
OK, I'll step in on this whole Andromeda question of reconstruction, as I actually own an operate one. The camera gives you the RAW CCD information. David is right about Sculptor HD, the program literally renders the files out into formats you can actually use, like quicktime or 16 bit Tiff image sequences. So in this manner, it is actually quite similar to a RAW photo file.

The hack merely gives you access to the data, Sculptor HD is where a lot the magic happens. At the moment, I'm using an alpha testing version of the next release of Sculptor, and it now has preview rendering abilities, so you can now quickly play a low res shot back for viewing on set, and you will also be able to set render in and out points in the footage as well. As for viewing the clip and adjusting the colors and sharpness ect.. not currently possible (but you DO control sharpening settings in the render dialog). I'm not sure why that would be a big deal anyways, as I have substantially more power doing that in After Effects.

Check this thread out if you wanna see the sheer power of the footage coming out of this little camera:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3098
 
How much money are we talking about for a nice HVX200 Hydra setup? I guess you would have to include a 35mm adapter, since it would seem a little odd to go through all that trouble just to shoot through the HVX's stock lens.

Once you throw in a RAID system, etc, the price has got to be getting up there near RED's price?
 
Tom said:
How much money are we talking about for a nice HVX200 Hydra setup? I guess you would have to include a 35mm adapter, since it would seem a little odd to go through all that trouble just to shoot through the HVX's stock lens.

Once you throw in a RAID system, etc, the price has got to be getting up there near RED's price?
Click to expand...

You're not too far off... thats the reason I bought my Andromeda. I assembled my system for about $4,900 and thats way under the start up cost for HVX200, and it outperforms the HVX200! I'm still waiting to see if the Hydra can match Andromeda's latitude though, I'm a bit skeptical... but thats another discussion. I think the only people getting Hydra are those who already own the camera and have paid it off. You don't need a RAID for capture, at least not from what I've heard, I shoot Andromeda to a regular old 7200 RPM firewire drive, and I've heard people using drives as slow as 5200 RPM.
 
Tom said:
I guess you would have to include a 35mm adapter, since it would seem a little odd to go through all that trouble just to shoot through the HVX's stock lens.
Click to expand...

Not so sure why you would bother with 35mm adapters. I thought about it, but these mods actually DECREASE your cameras ISO rating if you want the super clean footage I'm getting. My current record LUT puts my camera at ISO 160, the stock camera going to tape is like ISO 320! So if you put an adapter on it, its like ISO 80 :help: Time for HMI's.

Last but not least, your optical setup will only be as good as the lowest quality component in the system.... your stock lens. I've seen big time chromatic aberrations in footage using only the stock lens, and using the adapter. You could make chromatic aberration even more horrible if you shoot with cheap SLR lenses, as there is the potential they will produce aberrations, and then add on top of that the stock lens's possible aberrations. Just being devils advocate here LOL.
 
Tom said:
How much money are we talking about for a nice HVX200 Hydra setup?
Click to expand...

IMO, if you don't already have an HVX200, there's no point to a Hydra -- just buy a RED. By the time you buy an HVX and have the upgrade done as well as equip it with a dedicated record system, you're right about the same price as a RED body. Either way you still have to come up with lenses.

The HVX optics and sensor block struggle with low light and the Hydra upgrade isn't going to change that, plus you will still be fiddling with a 35mm adapter and all of its related issues (spinning ground glass, an additional 1-stop of light loss, etc..) instead of directly mounting lenses in front of the sensor. Even if it works out $5K cheaper in the end, I'd rather find a way to find the money so I can record 4K with superior optics instead of marginal 2K with extra layers of glass between my subject and my CCD. Just my opinion...

OTOH, I already have an HVX that I've been trying to sell and nobody seems interested. If I have any money left after RED, I may do a Hydra convert on it. Or I could just fire-sell the HVX and buy some new lights or something else while I wait for the RED Pro Pocket Camera, which I fully expect will be superior to a hack-job HVX both in form and function.
 
Yeah, that's what I figured, in terms of price, and having to turn the thing into a Frankenstein and all of that.

BTW, if I were you I would dump that HVX right away, unless you are needing it for a shoot or something. I did okay a few months back selling mine on DVXUser. The only thing I got burned on is that the very week I listed my HVX over there, Panasonic announced their free p2 card deal... heh-heh... what timing. :)
 
Has anyone ever hacked the front of a dvx to take 35mm lenses directly or is this impossible?
 
Cardmaverick said:
The camera gives you the RAW CCD information. David is right about Sculptor HD, the program literally renders the files out into formats you can actually use, like quicktime or 16 bit Tiff image sequences. So in this manner, it is actually quite similar to a RAW photo file.
Click to expand...

Well, I stand corrected. Happily so.
 
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