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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Preferred IPP2 Workflow

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Birk Kromann

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Hey guys

I'm wondering what the preferred IPP2 workflow is? It seems the best quality is achieved by exporting the .R3Ds from Redcine-X (highlight algorithm and demosaic)
All the workflows I can come up with ends with the raw files being transcoded from RCX which doesn't give me a the flexibility of raw when grading in Resolve.

So how do I benefit from the processing in RCX without having to either grade the files in RCX or transcode to grade in Resolve?
Is there something I have missed completely?

Best regards
Birk
 
Hi Birk,

Davinci Resolve 14 beta 6 adds support for IPP2. So you can opt for a more traditional finish and need not worry about incorporating RedCine into your workflow.

Hope this helps

Best,
Arthur
 
Arthur Ditner said:
Hi Birk,

Davinci Resolve 14 beta 6 adds support for IPP2. So you can opt for a more traditional finish and need not worry about incorporating RedCine into your workflow.

Hope this helps

Best,
Arthur
Click to expand...

I don't believe it supports full blown IPP2, i.e. new debayer and highlight extension stuff.

RWG/Log3G10 is supported however. It is in a variety of apps.

At the moment RCX beta is the only thing I know that supports all of IPP2s features until the SDK gets out there.
 
Note: IPP2 is not just REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10.

You will not get the added highlight retention and the new debayer algorithm. R3D footage will still be processed through the legacy image processing pipeline.

Still, REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10 will yield better results than Legacy color science, and is a great work around if you do not want to round trip through RCX. In fact, it's the current workflow I use for my day-to-day work. For one off projects though, I will finish my final cut using the R3Ds and Legacy color science, I will XML that to RCX Beta, then export flattened RWGRGB/LOG3G10 files with my highlight rolloff of choice into ProRes 4:4:4:4 files, then grade those files in Resolve, add philmColor™, etc.

EDIT: dag nabbit, Phil beat me again
 
Thank you for all your answers! With the current workflow what is the best way to benefit from the new debayer and highlight algorithm?
Also, I've been testing the different LUTs and am not quite sure how the highlight 4 differs from the soft highlight algorithm?

Once again, all your answers are very much appreciated!
I've only recently bought a RED so am still quite green.
 
Birk Kromann said:
Thank you for all your answers! With the current workflow what is the best way to benefit from the new debayer and highlight algorithm?
Also, I've been testing the different LUTs and am not quite sure how the highlight 4 differs from the soft highlight algorithm?

Once again, all your answers are very much appreciated!
I've only recently bought a RED so am still quite green.
Click to expand...

No worries Birk. We're all here to help. It's tough for me to recommend a "best way" because there are so many workflows that you can use with RED footage.

With that disclaimer out of the way, the way I've been taking advantage of ALL of the IPP2 benefits involves transcoding from REDCine X Beta 50. There's no way around transcoding until the new SDK is released and the vendors (Apple, Adobe, BMD, etc) implement it.

The exception to transcoding is grading your files in RCX, which you can do, but only at a basic level, and that may not yield optimal results depending on how far you push the boundaries.

--

A quick note regarding the IPP2 Output Transform LUTs.


In software that has the IPP2 color science options implemented, you can apply the Output Transform LUT at the end of your effects chain to get the raw RWGRGB/LOG3G10 footage back to REC 709. The ideal hierarchy is Raw File > Lumetri/Color Grading > Output LUT.

That will get you a nice chunk of the IPP2 benefits, and is possibly the best balance of "bleeding edge capability" and "ease of workflow". The transcode method can be a bit much, and I'm finding that simply using the new color options, along with the transform LUT, yields a fantastic image.

It's a bit wrinkly right now, but this will become significantly easier as soon as the SDK is released and implemented. There will only be one color science choice. Then, pick your contrast & highlight rolloff, and you're all set.

-A
 
Kind of related question:

I've been futzing around with shooting RWG/LOG3G10 in-camera (Epic-w) with the preview lut on.

Then I bring the footage into Premiere, which interprets it as DC2/RG4. I can then change back to RWG/3G10 and apply the rec709 output lut in Lumetri.

However, the image is consistently a stop darker than it is when it comes into Premiere as DC2/RG4. Is this to be expected? Is this normal?
 
Tom Dowler said:
Kind of related question:

I've been futzing around with shooting RWG/LOG3G10 in-camera (Epic-w) with the preview lut on.

Then I bring the footage into Premiere, which interprets it as DC2/RG4. I can then change back to RWG/3G10 and apply the rec709 output lut in Lumetri.

However, the image is consistently a stop darker than it is when it comes into Premiere as DC2/RG4. Is this to be expected? Is this normal?
Click to expand...

That should not be the case. The IPP2 defaults keep the mid-tone image brightness the same as RG4, however, you will see some differences in the shadows and highlights as the tone mapping is quite different. I don't use Premiere Pro enough (argh - I started with Premiere, the original, not pro, back around v2.5 I think.....) to debug that with you, but I can take a look at the R3D through the reference pipeline and see. Or you can take the R3D into latest REDCine-X beta for IPP2 and see if that looks different to your Premiere Pro path.

Graeme
 
Graeme, do you dear to guesstimate when the ipp2 sdk will be out to developers? Do you think it will be out in two months? This year? Any bones to throw on that?
 
I don't know of any LA colorists on network series or features using anything except RedLogFilm for final color from Red files. The problem with baking in the looks from IPP -- as I see it -- is that they don't offer enough adjustability for post. We typically do not have the available time to do lots and lots of Rawe corrections as it is. While I don't mind using R3D for final color, a lot of projects just convert everything to DPX and do all of the finishing that way. And it's just done in DragonColor and RedLogFilm. I'm generally not happy with DragonColor2 because I've encountered clipping/out-of-gamut issues with blue, but maybe that's been fixed in the last few months.

Any LUTs could potentially be too destructive in other ways, so there are good arguments to be made against LUTs and for just doing the same look with the traditional tools available in Baselight / Pablo / Resolve / whatever. I haven't yet encountered a LUT I couldn't match with the controls in Resolve, provided I have a few hours to prepare all the necessary looks. I concede that technical LUTs are important for certain things, and I agree that LUTs are very good to help get the VFX workflow in line with what's being done in final color.
 
Alright, so I did a test to see how big of a difference I could see between doing the debayer in Resolve and exporting a ProRes 4444 clip from RCX.
I can only see a tiny tiny difference on the bulbs.

The file from RCX is rendered out as a RWG and Log3G10 file and the settings in Resolve are the same as in RCX.

Is this the difference there is, or am I doing something wrong?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vv80anep9iibmnc/AABcgn4OhQ0yNscz5WhbBEAYa?dl=0
 
I've heard the new debayer algorithm being sharper/cleaner, but what's highlight retention improvements are you talking about (this is the first I'm hearing of it as I tend to avoid RCXp betas)?
 
Yeah, I've read/watched all that stuff, but don't see how the same thing isn't achieve via RWG/3G10 + LUT... like what's the difference/advantage attributed to RCXp 50b that makes it better than the release build/RWG/3G10+LUT method?
 
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Mike P. said:
Yeah, I've read/watched all that stuff, but don't see how the same thing isn't achieve via RWG/3G10 + LUT... like what's the difference/advantage attributed to RCXp 50b that makes it better that the release build/RWG/3G10+LUT method?
Click to expand...

Well, that's what I don't quite understand too. But didn't want to asked the question as it seems pretty obvious to others and - I guess - have been covered multiple times already.
 
Mike P. said:
Yeah, I've read/watched all that stuff, but don't see how the same thing isn't achieve via RWG/3G10 + LUT... like what's the difference/advantage attributed to RCXp 50b that makes it better than the release build/RWG/3G10+LUT method?
Click to expand...

Beta build left, stable release right.

highlights_2.jpg


Definitive.jpg


Overexposed.jpg


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?157839-Helium-IPP2-Highlight-Test-Huge-improvement
 
Got dang it... I mean, I've noticed better handling with RWG/3G10 + LowCon-Rolloff4, but the above beta50 is substantially/plain-as-day better.

...does it have the same highlight benefits with MX and Dragon or is it just Helium?
 
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But are those benefits "available" in Resolve too, hence the small difference I could see.
 
Mike P. said:
...does it have the same highlight benefits with MX and Dragon or is it just Helium?
Click to expand...

I believe the algorithm works for all r3ds.

Birk Kromann said:
But are those benefits "available" in Resolve too, hence the small difference I could see.
Click to expand...

The highlight extension algorithm is not yet implemented in Resolve, as far as I recall. Graeme?
 
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