Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

[Mark Thorpe]

All is going well. Out busy shooting new stuff daily and focusing on the edit for 'the project at hand'. Mainly just ingesting more footage to the hard drives, same old boring kinda stuff. All essential though.

Will be making decisions for the lenses this week. Need to get plans nailed and get moving forward. Before we know it we'll all be proud parents of screaming little RED things, best to have the nursery loaded with the 'toys' from the start eh?

From yesterday:

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Ken Corben]

Mark,

Your compostion and framing are awesome in that reef photo, nice eye - is that an ambient light frame grab of the Z-1 or a still from the Z-1?

Will be making decisions for the lenses this week. Need to get plans nailed and get moving forward. Before we know it we'll all be proud parents of screaming little RED things, best to have the nursery loaded with the 'toys' from the start eh?

Do you know a secret you're not telling? Lens selection for the underwater RED camera system is still the $64K question, no?

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Thanks Ken,
Nice to get positive feedback on imagery from a fellow bubble blower. It's a still taken from Z1 footage on Big Drop Off, Palau, ambient light using cyan (blue water) filter.

Regarding lenses I'm potentially looking to go with the Tamron 90mm and start archives on the macro side of things. As and when positive feedback for the wider lenses come in 'from the field' I'll make my decisions. I would imagine that yours and Gibby's trials are gonna potentially pave the way for what works and what doesn't before many of us other bubblers even get our cameras in our hands.

Cheers,
Mark.
PM'd you re: the other stuff.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Plug & Go View Finder & LCD

Plug & Go View Finder & LCD

....just a thought on the EVF and LCD.....I recall some text floating around about a wet plug connection for an EVD and LCD...much like hooking up the Gates EM 43 monitor.

However as was pointed out to me by someone recently....(and this is 2nd hand as I'm not aware)...BUT, the RED will use a different connection---I think a DVI connector or something at least quite different than the standard wet plug SD/HD connectors. So....guess that's an ENTIRELY NEW option to figure out for the EVF & LCD connections on the HOUSED STYLE view finder or monitor options.

I'm not entirely fond of a housed LCD since you have many factors that will affect the viewer to get a critical look at what they are shooting while in sunlit conditions etc...

Something to consider for the brains that are already working out there. I'm sure this is OLD news however.

Johnny

 

[Michael Hastings]

Wet plug connectors are available.

Wet plug connectors are available.

Wet plug connectors are readily available for pretty much any number of pins you need, it just gets more expensive. It is probably more practical to make a solid connection since you don't really need to be plugging and unplugging it. My basic idea was just to make housing for the LCD semi permanently attached (i.e. you need a wrench to remove the cable from the housing) which saves $500 - $600 or more at the retail level for a 20 pin connector. These multipin Viewfinder cables are pretty standard on broadcast cameras so we've dealt with it all of the different ways before. Anyway, the cable would just be a version of the regular cable which would plug into the LCD inside the LCD waterproof case. LCD is removable for regular use.

....just a thought on the EVF and LCD.....I recall some text floating around about a wet plug connection for an EVD and LCD...much like hooking up the Gates EM 43 monitor.

However as was pointed out to me by someone recently....(and this is 2nd hand as I'm not aware)...BUT, the RED will use a different connection---I think a DVI connector or something at least quite different than the standard wet plug SD/HD connectors. So....guess that's an ENTIRELY NEW option to figure out for the EVF & LCD connections on the HOUSED STYLE view finder or monitor options.

I'm not entirely fond of a housed LCD since you have many factors that will affect the viewer to get a critical look at what they are shooting while in sunlit conditions etc...

Something to consider for the brains that are already working out there. I'm sure this is OLD news however.

Johnny

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Big shout going out to Ken 'sharkguy' Corben,
Hanging here in Palau with DJ Roller. Him and his crew are renting some lighting units and achromatic diopters from me. Had a few beers with him last night and he mentioned he's not seen you in a while and that you were present at his wedding. Big hi there big fella.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Ken Corben]

Mark,

Thanks for passing on the message from DJ - wow do we go back in history. DJ is one of the most talented underwater DP's in the business. He created a look for my Hammerhead Shark Week Special on digital betacam, ambient light at 30+ meters on Alcyon seamount Cocos Island that was ahead of its time.

DJ and I were among the first DP's to test one of the only two working prototypes of Sony's first HDCAM (97?). In fact I think we were the first to shoot HDCAM underwater. Funny thing is during the end of the testing I was shooting DJ underwater on a scooter in a cave entrance when I noticed smoke filling up the housing thru the viewfinder. I calmly finished the take and passed the camera to DJ. I'll never forget the look on his face after he peered thru the viewfinder. Keep in mind there was a long and impressive list of DP's waiting their turn to play with this camera after us. Later on the phone with Sony Execs, "Well, uh, there seems to be a cooling problem with the camera..."

Turns out it was a cooling fan motor that burned up and the first released cameras came with a new and improved cooling fan - thanks to us?

Ask DJ about testing an underwater 12K in the parking lot of some flea bag hotel in the Florida panhandle and the Indian Manager screaming at him, "Who will pay for the electricity?" and DJ calmly responding, "It's a new technology - uses very little electricity" - while lighting half of downtown Nowhere, Florida:tongue:

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Great stories there mate,
I reckon some of the stories I've heard from some of the guys in this game would make a fantastic lighthearted book. A great read to take on a liveaboard somewhere eh? I have also had a few crazy times in my career to date, all great stuff.

I'll pass on your best wishes to DJ, they're out of here on the 15th but stop diving on the 13th. Here on a Recce for a possible IMAX 3D gig. Mate, we're gonna have to nail that bait ball before it gets too well known!

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Ken Corben]

I have a notion that some of the greats like Howard Hall, Vince Pace and DJ Roller will no doubt be producing some new and more great 3-D films for large format release. I'm always first in line as a paying audience member.

IMHO, it is the next generation 3-D technology that will enable never before seen 3-D underwater images due to the previous physical and mechanical restraints of the technlogy. But, whether it's Pace's cool underwater 3-D rig based on dual stream (stereo camera) HDCAM SR or Howard's tried and true 15perf 70mm "mini-sub" camera it always comes down to their masterful story telling that takes the audience's breath away.

My vision for the very near future, which I'm sure I share with Cameron/Pace and others, is a RED based underwater 3-D rig. Tapeless stereo acquisition underwater with a brilliant work flow - kudos to Jim and the Redteam for this quantum leap in technology that will translate into amazing underwater 3-D cinema experiences for audiences maybe as early as Summer '09.

 

[Andrew M.]

Canon NEW EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM Quick Test

Canon NEW EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM Quick Test

I posted this test in Lenses section.
Looks like something acceptable for 4K wide angle.
At f/5.6 almost no CA

 

[fathom]

I have decided to break silence and risk being shouted down but i had a small idea. At the moment the route currently seems to be to get a 35mm lens behind a dome. This is of course fine but what about the idea of using an actual underwater lens. You can still buy lenses for the Nikonos RS and it should not be too difficult to machine the mount and the servo controller for focus. Maybe they wouldn't be that good quality but i presume they were made very well originally and you get an image hitting the sensor that has not had to go through glass air then more glass. What do people think about this? OK so it might be a worry having a potential leak so close to the camera but a leak is dodgy wherever it occurs.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Using actual Underwater lens.

Using actual Underwater lens.

At the moment the route currently seems to be to get a 35mm lens behind a dome. This is of course fine but what about the idea of using an actual underwater lens. You can still buy lenses for the Nikonos RS and it should not be too difficult to machine the mount and the servo controller for focus. Maybe they wouldn't be that good quality but i presume they were made very well originally and you get an image hitting the sensor that has not had to go through glass air then more glass. What do people think about this? OK so it might be a worry having a potential leak so close to the camera but a leak is dodgy wherever it occurs.

Fathom:

I actually proposed this very early in this thread. It would probably be necessary (for flange distance/backfocus reasons) to replace the entire front of the RED camera with the front plate of the housing with a Nikonos receptacle and then you could use the Nikonos 15 (which is really a 20 behind a dome) or you could use other Nikons using the Nikonos Aqualens system which allows you to mount regular nikons on the nikonos. Presumably the same type of thing could be done with the RS lenses.

That approach is not out of the question, but the big problem is that the Nikonos lenses are not really that wide on the S35 sensor of the RED which has a 1.6x factor when comparing it to the same lens on a 35mm SLR full frame sensor or film which is 36mm x 24mm. This is the reason we are all considering the 10-22 Canon because the 10 mm would be like a 16mm on 35 SLR.

The Nikonos 15 (which again is really a 20) would have the same angle of view as a 32mm on a full frame SLR and even a true 15 mm would be only equivalent to a 24 mm - so not that wide.

Re: the Nikonos 15 - some history - when it came out in the sixties underwater housings and particularly dome ports weren't that common so the Nikonos 15 which is just a 20mm nikon lens with a glass dome was marked 15mm to show its "relative" focal length to lenses behind flat ports. I don't know if the RS lenses went back to Real focal lengths but it still doesn't get around that they wouldn't be as wide on the RED.

BTW Those "underwater" lenses are primarily normal lenses with a built-in dome (and they also are made so their focus compensates for the refocusing of a dome.) It also points out the fact that domes, while not perfect, are one of the most practical solutions for very high quality underwater work

The other issue is that the mount is fairly small so with this big of a camera/underwater case you'd have to reinforce it or worry about banging it hard enough to knock it off or at least cause a leak.

I have decided to break silence and risk being shouted down but i had a small idea.

PS don't worry about "breaking silence" or whatever. At least on this thread we are pretty much about discussion and sharing of knowledge, and leaving the shouting/flaming, etc. to other threads/forums. So as far as I'm concerned, chime in anytime.

 

[Ken Corben]

PS don't worry about "breaking silence" or whatever. At least on this thread we are pretty much about discussion and sharing of knowledge, and leaving the shouting/flaming, etc. to other threads/forums. So as far as I'm concerned, chime in anytime.

Well said Mike.

Other than the FOV issue I wish the Nikonos 15 was a solution since I own two of them but I would feel a bit sceptical about the bayonet mount o-ring since underwater cinemtography is 1% LUCK AND 99% O-RING.

I think that Mike's proposed RED housing systems from earlier posts incorporate the best of K.I.S.S. When the lens questions for us underwater dudes are answered by the testing of Gibby's #8 led by Evin Grant, Mike will have the data to pull the trigger and start machining.

Until then it's still $10K a week for the U/W cinealta rental...OUCH!

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Back from the wilderness.....

Back from the wilderness.....

Wow, a week has passed since my last visit. Another week closer to the REDvolution my friends.

Been tied up with a short music video type edit. A group in the UK wanted to have a string out of underwater images to accompany their latest release, aptly titled 'Oceanic'. The group, Above & Beyond present Tranquility Base are also avid divers and have actually been to Palau, where I currently reside, albeit before my time. Well in case any of you are interested you can check out the edit:

www.4koceanstock.com/blog.html

Click the Manta Ray image underneath the 'technocean' entry. The file is an mp4 format weighing in at 29MB.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I hate going to your website.

I hate going to your website.

I hate going to your blog - makes me very jealous.

Nice stuff Mark, keep it up.

www.4koceanstock.com/blog.html

Click the Manta Ray image underneath the 'technocean' entry. The file is an mp4 format weighing in at 29MB.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Ken Corben]

Sea Monsters

Sea Monsters

Anyone seen this trailer for National Geographic's 3-D live action and CGI epic prehistoric underwater tale yet?

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/giantscreenfilms/sea-monsters-a-prehistoric-adventure.html

It will be interesting to see the film in 3D IMAX and RealD 3D to compare the viewing experience. It is an exciting time to be a pending RED owner and underwater filmmaker. Hell, I'd be stoked to have a pair of limit enabled capable RED cameras that shoots 24p @ 180 degree shutter in redcode RAW for my current projects.

Sharky

 

[Mark Thorpe]

AquaVideoRed206 - I hate going to your blog - makes me very jealous.

Hahaha, gotta love it. Getting ready for the Indo adventure so will be absent for some time. Mind you, I'll be posting some pretty wild critter info when I get back.

Soon Ken, soon......

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

But just before I go......

But just before I go......

Here ya go Mike, something else to make you jealous.....

OK, so they are captive but better that than ending up as cat chow as they were originally intended. These dolphins were bought out / rescued from a performing show in Japan by one of the top directors of Sony. With two invalid sons he believes in the healing abilities Dolphins have on the mind as opposed to the limbs. Floating in the Ocean offers the kids the chance to feel as any normal person would in the watery medium, lets face it none of us are that graceful underwater irrespective as to how good a swimmer we may think we are.

This is what I was up to yesterday, meeting and filming eight Pacific Bottlenose Dolphins at the Dolphins Pacific facility here in Palau......all good stuff.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Stop, I'm stuck here in front of a computer. LOL

 

[Ken Corben]

Mark,

Again with that friggin' great photo composition - I''d say it was luck but you keep doing it. Meanwhile us drones are plugging away in development hell slogging out budgets. Two budgets really, one for RED camera based production the second for cinealta. An eye opening read even if your not an actuary.