Tripod, what to buy

[Ralph Oshiro]

So if you guys read all the way through this, thanks for your time. All I can say is don't buy this tripod head/combo -- even if you're on a really tight budget. It isn't worth half of what I paid. It was $1700... I only paid $1200 for my Cartoni Focus setup and while it's rated for 13lbs less, it's an overall much better and more elegant unit.

Sorry to hear of your disappointment, AV! I was going to suggest you try to find a used Vinten haed and pair it up with some Libec legs to save some cash, but it looks like you already committed. If you purchased from B+H, they DO have a return policy. It's just real short. But I would at least attempt to obtain an RMA number from them. It may be a bit of a hassle, but I've always managed to eventually get very satisfactory customer service resolutions from B+H. They once exchanged a digital camera for me, MONTHS after I had purchased it, because I didn't realize part of it was defective until way after the fact. I asked for a supervisor, gave her my sob story, and she bought it. They sent me a new camera. Another time, when I bought my Steadicam Flyer from them, they misread some special instructions. They paid for the return shipping in full, then drop-shipped a new Flyer from Tiffen--all at their cost, with no re-stocking fees.

By the way . . . thanks for taking the time to write that detailed review!

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Oh crap. You bought it from Amazon. Well, it's still worth trying for an RMA number from the vendor. Just say, it really wasn't the quality you thought was going to be. The actual truth always sounds "real genuine."

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Actually, the Amazon purchase worked out good in this regard. The tripod package was sold by Amazon.com and not a third-party vendor through Amazon. So I already have my RMA #. No restocking fee and I was able to choose that I was dissatisfied with the item as a reason for return. I originally attempted to buy from B&H, but they were out of stock. I didn't think to try Amazon for such a tripod package until a search for this particular head/leg combo showed up in a nextag search. Amazon was offering it with free shipping, so I figured I'd give it a try.

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Actually, the Amazon purchase worked out good in this regard. The tripod package was sold by Amazon.com and not a third-party vendor through Amazon. So I already have my RMA #. No restocking fee and I was able to choose that I was dissatisfied with the item as a reason for return. I originally attempted to buy from B&H, but they were out of stock. I didn't think to try Amazon for such a tripod package until a search for this particular head/leg combo showed up in a nextag search. Amazon was offering it with free shipping, so I figured I'd give it a try.

Whew! Good! I was feeling ill for you for having spent all that money on something you thought was such a piece of crap!

 

[PaulClements]

Thats a shame to hear Jeff, but a good review and thanks for the heads up. I guess the best bet the budget conscious is going to be the second hand market by the looks of it.

Thanks
Paul

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I guess the best bet the budget conscious is going to be the second hand market by the looks of it.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm just going to rent for now... Or at least until NAB comes along and then I'll keep my eyes open for any good deals on used gear.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Yeah, Jeff, NAB is just 6 weeks away. There may be some new heads rolled out - and some heads will probably roll!

If you're there on the last day of exhibitions you can sometimes snag some really cool deals on floor models exhibitors don't want to cart back to the factory. I gave my good impression of Vinten earlier in this thread. I've used tripods/heads from every manufacturer, but for the mobile, non-hardlined EFP work I do a lot of, Vinten has been great over the years. I think the trick there is to get a great head that will take a lot of load if needed, but one that isn't too heavy to carry around. If you're shooting mobile EFP and stock footage, carrying weight is an issue. I always get sticks with mid-level spreaders - never floor level. In outdoor shooting with floor level spreaders I've had many nightmares with dirt-clogged spreader channels. Carbon fiber conducts less vibration than aluminum alloy, so if you're shooting content where the air or ground shakes, that may be an issue.

Vinten is expensive - but it's because they have a long history, a solid reputation, and demand is high. Sometimes you can pick off a good reconditioned Vinten from a rental house. I've done that before with good luck. With tripods, as with most everything else, you get what you for. But there are workarounds (reconditioned, “going out of business” sales, last day of NAB, word of mouth sales from associates, luck, etc.)

I agree with Ralph’s opinion of good opinion of Vinten. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've heard some real good reports on the Vinten Vision 100 for when heavier load capacity is needed. With my REDs I'll probably end up using an O'Connor or Vinten Vision 100 for heavy loads/stationary work, a mid-range Vinten for general use/medium loads/mobile work, and a Miller Solo with carbon fiber sticks for real mobile/light to low-medium loads shooting.

I'm going to wait until NAB to finalize any more purchase decisions of any kind...as you know, it's a big candy store!

 

[Finner]

Sorry to hear about that Jeff, I know you were kind of counting on this head getting you through the next few months. I will be looking for a new head at NAB as well.

 

[Ivan G]

My initial impression of the 526/528XB combo...

IT'S CRAP! ...more to come in a bit.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaats BOGEN!

I honestly enjoyed reading that little article on Bogen. Seriously! I'd love to get info like that on products.

 

[Mike the beginner]

That was a great review Jeff. You saved me from getting a load of rubbish.

I really need something that i can use with the red zoom most of the time and the red 300mm at other times. I had hoped to purchase a tripod around the same time my red 312 will arrive but have now decided to wait. I need carbon fibre legs for sure so maybe some of the wildlife pros will purchase a red and buy a suitable tripod hopefully giving us a review of their purchase.

Its galling when i think of paying more than $6,000 for a tripod when there is so many other things i need.

Mike the beginner

 

[Stephen Williams]

H
I mean, Sachtlers are arguably the best, IMO, but I prefer the Vintens. I use Sachtlers at work for our BVW600s,

Ralph,

You are joking?

I have just been using a 75HD with a loaded Viper, fine when straight ahead but total crap when on a crane pointing down. O'conner is IMHO by far the best.

Stephen

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

526 images

526 images

Here's a few images...

The system fitted with the stock HVX so you can see the size relationship of the head. ...About what I expected, maybe a bit big.

The view of the quick release plate halfway removed from the head. The red button on the front side of the quickplate track is the spring-clip that "keeps it from falling out". I can pull the quick plate out of the track without depressing this button with about 15lbs of force. ...Lame. Directly across from this on the other side of the track is the thumb screw that applies pressure on the side of the plate to "hold it in place". There are no divets, insets, etc.. points for this to screw into, it's a compression design only with a 1/4" diameter screw head holding your camera from falling off. In most situations, it probably will work just fine. Until that one time it fails...

And a view of the lower foot of the tripod. The lock knob is another 1/4" screw that applies pressure to the internal leg shaft. It doesn't actually lock into anything unless you manage to rotate the internal leg shaft and align the lock-knob with one of those pin-holes that are about 8" apart. You can see the included steel pin that goes in those pin holes as a backup measure. The metal piece that holds the rubber foot is just bent around it. You can see the small gap running the length of the piece. It's no big deal to pop the rubber foot out without noticing.

I'll post a few more if the site will let me...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Gibby,

Thanks for the comments again... I've been looking at the Vinten Vision 11 as well as the O'Conor 1030HD/HDS and 2060 at the local shop. IMO, the O'Connor 2060 is THE HEAD to get. But it's a bit big and heavy for being mobile and also I think it's going to be out of my budget range... I won't know that for sure until we get all the accessory pricing from RED in the next couple weeks. The Vision 11 and the O'Connor 1030HD are very even in terms of what they do, I like the 1030HD a little better, but it's $1200 more. I want to try a Vision 100 and will do so, but I think it's going to work out about the same as an O'Connor 2060 -- a little too big, not near as expensive though. In terms of size and payload capacity, the O'Connor 1030HDS is great, but I don't think I could live with the +/-60 tilt range.

As for tripod legs, I prefer carbon fiber just because of the weight. I do shoot outoors a lot and want to have a fairly mobile option. This Bogen kit isn't very mobile, but that didn't bother me so much... I figured that if the head worked out well, I could buy another set of legs. Just as a full kit with the legs and bag for $250 more than the head alone, this made sense for an immediate solution.

You mention the Miller Solo VJ tripod. I'd be interested in knowing what your overall opinion is of it (I'm guessing it's good since you brought it up). A lot of HVX200 users have chosen the Miller Solo to use with the Focus 100 head and the Solo seems like a great mobile option if it can handle a bigger head like the Vision 11 or 1030HD. I do occasionally shoot where the ground vibrates (construction sites, etc..), I haven't had much trouble with vibration. But then again with my DVX I had an old klunker steel tripod and I had the Cartoni F103 kit with the carbon legs, which I was pleased with overall.

I'd really like to go to NAB. I'm trying to find a way to pull it off, but I just don't know yet. As much as I'd like to see the RED booth, I don't need to, buying the camera is a done deal. I just want to go to meet a lot of the people from these forums and to take a look for a good tripod system along with a few other things.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More Pics...

More Pics...

Here's 3 more... Thie first is the bottom of the quick release plate. You can see the flimsy little spring that pushes the anti-rotation pin into place. But it isn't as strong as a mini-paperclip and the pin itself is very loose and sloppy.

The quick plate track itself. Red button on the left is that spring latch again, the thumb screw is on the other side of the track, kinda blurry.

The last pic shows the spirit level. The knob above it is the internal spring tension control. Below and to the right is the fluid drag setting for panning. The knob on the left side of the head is the fluid drag setting for the tilt. Above that and forward, near the Manfrotto logo is the lock-knob for locking the tilt of the head. Slightly below and forward from the fluid drag knob for tilt is the lock-knob for the pan rotation.

Sorry for the extra blurriness on the shots, I should have changed lenses on the camera. I just had the 50mm lens on and no flash, the light wasn't all that great just inside my front door.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If anyone wants some specific pictures, let me know. I can probably snap a few more later today or in the morning before I pack it up. It gets shipped back tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Hu…Hum… Panther X15… anybody ?

Emmanuel

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

Ralph,

You are joking?

I have just been using a 75HD with a loaded Viper, fine when straight ahead but total crap when on a crane pointing down. O'conner is IMHO by far the best.

Stephen

Well, I haven't played with O'Conner heads since probably the mid-1980s, and I really didn't like their heads back then (I especially hated their tiny little, metal pan/tilt locks). I'm sure they're much improved since then. For whatever reason, O'Conner isn't very popluar in ENG use--everyone I know has a Sachtler. Guess I'll have to check one out sometime, although I'm very happy with my Vinten. I know with larger cameras, such as the Viper you mentioned, counterbalanced-sprung weight is probably a must, but when I use my Sachtler at work, I ALWAYS have all counterbalance springs "off," simply because they adversely affect my tilt.

 

[Steve Gibby]

You mention the Miller Solo VJ tripod. I'd be interested in knowing what your overall opinion is of it (I'm guessing it's good since you brought it up). A lot of HVX200 users have chosen the Miller Solo to use with the Focus 100 head and the Solo seems like a great mobile option if it can handle a bigger head like the Vision 11 or 1030HD. I do occasionally shoot where the ground vibrates (construction sites, etc..), I haven't had much trouble with vibration.

I have no connection whatsoever to Miller, but an associate of mine has a Miller Solo DS20 tripod system, which is the 1501 carbon fiber sticks, and the DS20 fluid head. I’ve borrowed it several times and used it for shooting real mobile stock footage of nature, adventure travel, and alternative sports, with mid-sized camera systems. For that kind of shooting, I’m usually by myself, and I hike long distances with a camera backpack, tripod, and survival supplies. I loved it and I intend to buy one for when I do that kind of shooting.

The payload of the DS20 head is a max of 22 lbs, but a hike-in RED camera package should weigh around 19 pounds: camera, viewfinder, lens (RED 300mm, RED 18-85mm, or prime), battery, Flash or RED Drive, lightweight follow focus, lightweight clip-on matte box. I’ve had loads I estimated at around 24 pounds on the DS20 head and it still performed well.

The cool thing I like about the 1501 sticks for that kind of shooting is that they are lightweight, don’t need a spreader (3-position lockable), and you can put them on the low to the ground setting for creative low-level shots.

The vibration issue I mentioned is that carbon fiber does not transfer vibration either direction up/down the sticks like metal does. On windy days the carbon fiber sticks seem to dampen down the slight shakes the camera can get – a problem with long lenses. If you’re shooting by rushing water, motor sports, etc. the slight vibrations coming from the ground don’t reach the camera/lens, because the carbon fiber sticks absorb them.

Again, this is only my solution for the types of shooting/equipment I mentioned above. Perhaps a different 75mm ball fluid head on the 1501 sticks, with a higher load capacity, would be a good option, because then you’d have the option to put that same head on a sturdy pair of conventional sticks for a mid-range normal use tripod system.

For the heavier load, more stationary shooting, it’s hard to go wrong with the O’Connor and Vinten systems you have been mentioning. I rarely do hyper-load tripod shooting in my work – 55 lbs on up. If I have a call for that with my REDs, I’ll rent what I need for that on a per-project basis. In between the Miller Solo and the heavy tripod rentals, I’ll probably buy a used, reconditioned Vinten head and put it on some sturdy, but relatively lightweight sticks, with mid-level spreaders. Between those three systems, I’ll have the bases covered for 95% of what I normally shoot.

As I mentioned on other posts, I've had very good results in ENG/EFP work with both Vinten and Sachtler.


Some Miller links:

Miller Solo in the Arctic in temperatures as low as –70 degrees Fahrenheit: http://www.millertripods.com/inthefield.cfm?sectid=50&subsec=5011&ID=111

Miller Solo 1501 carbon fiber sticks:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=178

Weight = 5.7lbs. Payload = 44lbs. Minimum height = 9.2”. 3-position locking, with no spreader needed.

Miller DS20 fluid head specs:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=15

Miller DS20 tripod system:
http://www.millertripods.com/products.cfm?sectid=20&subsec=2020&productID=181

(Solo 1501 carbon fiber sticks + DS20 fluid head)

 

[Pig]

Wow, AppliedVisual, that's amazing; the review I mean.
This just goes to show how deceiving a quick NAB test can be.
I really was EXTREMELY impressed with this tripod head (526) when I briefly tested it at Nab 2006. I am quite perplexed to read your review here.
I can also confirm some of the negatives though; especially relating to the QR plate and its security. I was surprised Bogen/Manfrotto didn't make that a more pro design, but instead adopt the rather flimsy design of their cheaper units.
I am amazed at your take on the functionality of the head though. It may well be that other offerings at Nab lacked proper set-ups; Sachtler for instance (I think it was Sachtler) had a TERRIBLE, repeat TERRIBLE display of their heads. They were mounted on columns that would flex at their base, and basically rendered any tests useless.
Bogen had a nice set-up with their 526. A 2/3" cam and a decent tripod. Certainly a much more favourable way of testing the head.
I may have not read correctly, but I hope you tested this heads with something beefier than an HVX. I doubt this head would balance or preform well with such a light cam. AND: the HVX has its Center Of Gravity very low. This head will/should perform much better with a heavier cam and a higher Center of gravity.

Anyway, certainly appreciate your taking the time to review it. Makes me take back what I said about this combo, and just goes to show that sometimes things look to good to be true.

We still use our Vinten Vision 10 and our OLD O'Connor, and are still in the market for a new tripod and head. Maybe the 526 is not the answer after all....bummer!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi Pig,

I tested the 526 very thoroughly. I even kept it a few more days after the review and gave it another thorough test again just because I had high hopes for it.

Yes, I did test it with some heavier payloads, an HVX rig with Century wide glass on the front, mic, 13" LCD. Even tied a couple heavy books on top to play with making it more top-heavy and just heavier in general. Also tried it with a Sony DSR-350 (non functional), same monitor, etc.. Neither config got that close to the 35lb rating of the head, but both were well over half. Performance was better with more weight, but still not great. The #3 drag setting didn't improve much with more weight and the tripod would have to be anchored or the legs would have to be spread very wide. I was not impressed with the legs at all. The spring tension on the tilt was a joke. Tension control doesn't really do anything truly functional, or my head was defective. I also thought how the slight motion back and forth needed to lock-in or engage a new drag setting was inexcusable. ...I'm not alone with that thinking, seems that the other Manfrotto fluid heads have this issue as well as other people with the 526 report this same thing.

Anyway, it went back and I received my refund. I had high hopes for it, but it just isn't a good product. Since then I rented a Vinten Vision 11 kit from a local shop and I was pleased with that overall. Probably not beefy enough for a full RED setup, but I'm just going to hold off and rent whant I need until I have my RED and know what I need for sure.