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Buying a Lens Kit

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Kevin Welch

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Hey Everyone,

I was considering an investment into a lens kit for the following purposes:

1. To use on my own projects obviously

2. To rent to other filmmakers in the nyc area as a source of income

3. To network with other filmmakers in the area.

With the amount of epics already out there in the market it seemed better to stick with the scarlet I have now and get a really high quality set of lenses.

What would you guys buy if you wanted a series of lenses that are in high demand by epic owners and can help me to expand my network and make a return on investment?
Trying to decide between cp2s, ultra primes, the new canons, some leica series lenses.
Let me know your thoughts

thanks,
kevin
 
red pro primes. would be my choice.

never heard bad things about the rpp's
nice priced, red offers battle tested sets !

you can rent them for a affordable price to other filmmakers in your aera -
and do networking as well :-)

btw there are few other (but zoom) interesting lenses on the market.
fujinon cabrio 19-90, hehe


this beside: one of the best decisions. to invest in glass, not electronics... :-)
congrats !

best wishes

norbert
 
I love the RRP's and they are amazing, sharp as ultra primes, nothing wrong with them at all maybe a little heavy but other then that, perfect. I actually own a set and love them. That being said I would not buy a RPP set to rent out. People if the film industry have a stigma about those lenses and they are looked down apon you wont get very many rentals most productions out there are going to the big boys. If you want a chance at rentals you either have to get ultra primes or super speeds (real ones not the compact primes) cooks or angie zooms. But then again there are plenty of those out there especially in NYC. so its hard to come into that game. I think best best is to get something not may people have at all like a set of super baltars cant go wrong with those.
 
I think the new Schneider's would be an interesting. I have a set of the CP.2's and do that very thing. Not a lot of action on them, but it's split between EF and PL mount, so having the ability to change them is great.
 
I own a full set of RPP's, love them, use them on all of my projects. But they are not a rental set - they have a bad rep, not sure why and mostly with people who have never even seen a set. Which may be the answer.

If I'm working for a production company / agency combo on contract… I usually end up renting Zeiss Ultra or Master primes to keep the cheque writing producer happy. It's a shame, because the RPP's are a great set.

G.
 
If rentals your game, Zeiss, Cooke, Leica, and high endish stuff is the way to go. But theres other market segments too, I am sure people will rent Schnieder full frame, CP2s, Canon Cine, and "budget cine" glass as well. It probably depends on your clients to a certain degree, I am sure there is a market in NYC for the low end stuff too, arguably I know there is cuz I am with a production that has rented a retro Cooke zoom for almost 2 years now... So my point is if you can't afford a set for the price of a house (in the immediate area we are based in) then you can still consider a cheaper set. In fact I wonder if you'd be better off with several lower end sets of entry level PL cine, then say one set of Ultras, Masters, or Cine Summilux...

Personally I haven't moved into glass yet, but I want to. No funds to really do so, people think I am nuts for my current kit (people being non industry people, typically) just because they don't get it. The funny thing is after I go all out in glass, my Epic kit will be a drop in the bucket lmfao!
 
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I own a set of Lomo Square Front Anamorphics for several reasons:

They are anamorphic and renting ana glass is very expensive.

They have a unique character that is hard to come by.

They were relatively cheap to buy but rent out for a decent day rate.

I agree with what some of the other users have said - either go high end or go with something unique. Super Baltars are hot right now so if you can get a good set it will probably rent. Vintage lenses in general are being sought to take the digital "crispness" out of the picture. Personally, my favorite lenses are:

Zeiss Super Speeds - soft, especially wide open. Greenish/grey colors with red flares. Very interesting look and are about half the cost of most high end sets, with the same rental price.

Zeiss Ultra Primes - crisp, with cyan shadows and wonderful skintones. My go-to for commercial work.

Cooke S4s - the "Cooke look". Beautiful, foggy flares, a human warmth in the colors, great mechanics and a wide range of lengths readily available. About 40% more expensive than Ultras to buy, but rent for about the same amount.

I don't like the RPPs or CP2s. Both have strange colors to their flares, and overall I feel that they don't have much character. They are very clinical. Perhaps more suited for a sterile sci-fi project, IMO.

I used to own a set of Lomo Super Speeds (now owned by Mike Quill) which had great flares and character and were relatively cheap to purchase. It is hard to come by a set though.

My advice - go out and try a bunch of lenses. You may be surprised by some of their characteristics and find that you like some and don't like others. Then focus on finding a set that you would use frequently and would be glad to rent to your shoots - in all likelihood you will be the one driving the rentals, not other people renting them from you. The 3 sets I mentioned earlier are pretty standard and popular and would serve you well in the long run. New mid-range options are becoming plentiful as well - Cooke Mini S4s, Canon CN-Es (although they have an inconsistent T-stop range - I prefer their zooms), Schneider Xenars and Xenons, etc. and some low-high end options are coming soon, such as the Leica Summicron-Cs.

Shoot me a message if I can help answer any other questions. Hope some of this was helpful!
 
Glen Powell said:
I own a full set of RPP's, love them, use them on all of my projects. But they are not a rental set - they have a bad rep, not sure why and mostly with people who have never even seen a set. Which may be the answer.

If I'm working for a production company / agency combo on contract… I usually end up renting Zeiss Ultra or Master primes to keep the cheque writing producer happy. It's a shame, because the RPP's are a great set.

G.
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Because they are not very good glass, period. They are very sharp, but other than that many DPs find them ugly (yucky clinical character, ugly flaring, ugly focus fall-off, ugly color rendition - you name it), heavy for no reason, and the mechanics are shoddy. For $200 more a day I can get Cookes which are superior in every way and weigh far less.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Because they are not very good glass, period. They are very sharp, but other than that many DPs find them ugly (yucky clinical character, ugly flaring, ugly focus fall-off, ugly color rendition - you name it), heavy for no reason, and the mechanics are shoddy. For $200 more a day I can get Cookes which are superior in every way and weigh far less.
Click to expand...


That's your opinion Robert - and I'm not surprised that you have one - ButI'd have to say that after any post colour work, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could tell the difference...
 
CP.2s are the obvious choice, they're hugely popular and for good reason - they have a nice, cool, punchy, 'modern' look, great mechanics and they're affordable. The Cooke S4 Minis are also a really nice set, beautiful, warm, 'gentle' images - though the constant T/2.8 aperture does put some people off (if they're short on their lighting package).

The Canon's have some really nice glass inside them, but they're EF mount only, which is a real turnoff for a lot of people (particularly if they're renting cameras, in which case they'll generally have PL mount bodies).

Nothing is perfect at the more 'affordable' end of the market, but there aren't really any 'bad' options, glass-wise they're all really nice.

RPPs don't rent, I've never met anyone who owns them who's been able to rent them out (beyond those who bring them with as their own set when they're shooting) so I'd avoid them if rental is a goal. They're very sharp, the focus marks are kinda iffy though and the wide lenses are rather indecently large.
 
If you're in the market for Lomos BEWARE. A lot of ripoffs floating around out there, on this site even. LOTS. They are fantastic lenses if you can find good ones that don't have issues. That is also if you can find a seller with scruples who isn't going to sell you scrap metal and glass for the recycle bin. Patience will help, and never EVER buy sight unseen EVER.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Because they are not very good glass, period. They are very sharp, but other than that many DPs find them ugly (yucky clinical character, ugly flaring, ugly focus fall-off, ugly color rendition - you name it), heavy for no reason, and the mechanics are shoddy. For $200 more a day I can get Cookes which are superior in every way and weigh far less.
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I went with RPPs after many lens comparisons. They DO rent well. Maybe I'm a special case, because I cater to a small group of clients who rent from me frequently. After spending time with the RPPs, my clients have all fallen in love with them. If you think they look too sharp, soften in post. No one has yet complained to me about sharpness.
Probably the most divisive characteristic is the flaring. Some LOVE it, others see it as a flaw. I love it, hence my decision to go with RPPs over Ultra Primes or Super Speeds.
Another odd issue is that a lot of these lenses ship with the focus marks slightly off. It was a bit annoying having the marks professionally adjusted, but now they're accurate and mechanically perfect.
I've also worked with some serious DPs (Like "I only have to work a few small shoots a month to afford an amazing Manhattan/Brooklyn apartment" DPs) and they love these lenses.
Despite the haters, I feel that history will smile upon RPPs and they'll eventually become well sought after. The original Super Speeds were no big thing when they came out and now they've nearly doubled in price and people are gaga over them.
Most importantly, even if no one wanted to rent my lenses, I've chosen the lenses I like. The lenses that I want to shoot with.
Final note: Think they're too heavy? Time to hit the gym =) I use them for handheld pretty frequently. Even shot a wedding with them (Although I'll admit that constant handheld with 5lbs of lens + 5lbs of Camera = Some tired arms at the end of the day).
 
Whatever lens set you decide on, moving forward you should factor in larger sensor sizes into the equation ie Dragon. Because some of the sets mentioned here will have lens circle fall off issues.
 
If you want to use them for any kind of serious income they should be PL Mount. My recco would be a set of Superspeeds or newer Panchros, both are the go-to sets in production when the budget can't support things like Master Primes or S4-5's.

RPP's are good lenses but I'm not convinced you'll make your money back renting them unless you have dedicated productions you can direct them towards.

Canon mount lenses will not rent for anything substantial.

Of course, there are all kinds of excellent options out there for personal use. I'm strictly talking rentability.

Hope that helps.
 
I'll echo what Paul said. If you want to rent glass to a broad market PL is the way to go. Although, especially if you're a Red shooter, I'd grab an EF Mount with a few other optics in there like specialty lenses or maybe flesh out a small kit using a mount like that.

If you're looking to rent out glass often you'll want to invest in what the "hot glass" is. However, none of that is inexpensive by any means. A good set of Super Speeds will rent though.

Red Pro Primes are a good investment and also perform pretty damn well comparatively to other glass, to me that's what matters. However, they lack the Zeiss, Cooke, or Leica name that will help rent glass more often. That's the reality of branding.

I went an even crazier route by purchasing Schneider Cine-Xenar III primes. The previous two versions of these lenses weren't popular at all, although the optics were pretty good. The mechanics are vastly improved on the IIIs and the 18mm is a sexy lens added to this series and there's two more on the way. That changed a lot of things in my mind. My particular set is very, very nice. It is indeed a special select set. However they are T2 and not super speeds, so there are trade offs and I do love fast glass. The benefit is that they do have exceptional close focus capabilities, three of the lengths are pure telecentric designs with no breathing, and they have one of the prettiest out of focus renderings out there. Color-wise they give me Leica vibes, which I like. That was my "road less traveled" choice and so far I'm happy with this decision. Although the Leica Summicron-C primes that are on the way may really freak me out.


Coverage indeed comes into the equation if you are thinking Dragon. However, that all depends on how you'll be using Dragon 6K.


My biggest advice if you are considering a set of glass is to test out the lenses you will be purchasing. Each lens is unique. A quality matched set is what the higher end folks desire. Especially if considering an older series of used lenses, you really need to look closely at them to make sure they are in good shape.
 
Phil Holland said:
...A good set of Super Speeds will rent though… I went an even crazier route by purchasing Schneider Cine-Xenar III primes…. However they are T2 and not super speeds, so there are trade offs and I do love fast glass.
Click to expand...

Ding ding and ding.

I would have been all over the Schneiders if they had only been fast.

It says a lot that old Speeds are STILL renting so well; why has no-one really done anything to make a reasonably priced modern equivalent???

The lenses I really want don't exist: a set of Red Pro Speeds. Sharp, at least stopped down a little, cheapish, not MPs, but opening to T1.3 or so, $25-30k for a set. If I want that kind of price, the only choices are dubious inconsistent Russian glass which didn't test too well in WFO, or a thirty year old set of Mk 2 Superspeeds.

Crazy. The market IS there.

Mike
 
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