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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

800fps Epic

K

Ken Wilson

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I had this idea that I think with the help of the engineers of Red it might be possible to achieve 800fps in 2k and double the fps in any other resolution.

I only shoot 3D but in this case I will shoot 2D.

I have 2 Epics on a beam splitter set to give me an identical pic at say 2k ws 400fps. Now: If one Epic just fires right on in between the other Epics fire sequence that will give you double the fps. Then with a simple combine in RX you get one file with double the fps.

No?
 
that should work but there is a quite high risk that you will get into trouble with "every secon frame flicker"

I had a mitchell s-35 with a butterfly mirror shutter. basically the mirror looked like a butterfly instead of a moon or packman So on one mirror rotation two frames where exposed. Just the slightest difference between the wings of the mirrors would cause alot of flicker in between a and b frames. going trough a beam splitter and 2 different lenses will cause the same kind of issues, especially visible in high speed as not so much in frame is moving so the only thing you then see is the flicker...
 
Björn Benckert said:
that should work but there is a quite high risk that you will get into trouble with "every secon frame flicker"

I had a mitchell s-35 with a butterfly mirror shutter. basically the mirror looked like a butterfly instead of a moon or packman So on one mirror rotation two frames where exposed. Just the slightest difference between the wings of the mirrors would cause alot of flicker in between a and b frames. going trough a beam splitter and 2 different lenses will cause the same kind of issues, especially visible in high speed as not so much in frame is moving so the only thing you then see is the flicker...
Click to expand...

TBH the variable shutter was probably responsible for that flicker. I remember spending 2 days motor tuning a camera MRMC had set up, with patience it can be improved, everything has an effect even the tension of the take up motors & the angle of the camera. The flicker characteristics can vary considerably from 24 to 25 fps.
 
I've thought of this for years, shooting 8K 24 fps video with Sony DSLRs in the same fashion you're talking about. I have no idea how it would work, you'd have to somehow be able to sync the two cameras together, then you've got to align them, the crop in post, etc. Always seemed like more trouble than it's worth.
 
My understanding was that there is a polarization difference between the to beam-splitter angles. That alone would cause flicker.

Phil
 
I am sorry to say that I can not discuss the different responses as I have no idea about technical stuff especially to the advanced degree you guys are. I am just frustrated as I thought that 120 fps will be enough and now I want at least 1000 to be ok and twixtor does not do it. I like the Phantom but a set of 2 in 4k will cost over 300 thousand so no go for now for me.. Also now from what I read I doubt if it's possible to shoot 1k fps 3d? Anyone knows if it has been done? Some 400fps I did were awesome in 3D.
 
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lots and lots of interesting 2d effects can be achived with a 3d rig, patience , good tecjnical knowledge (of rigs, lenses, cameras and post) and creative imagination... But from my experience I would suggest that double rate clean slowmo is just too much hassle... Phantoms are not 'that' expensive to hire...
 
what I'd like is burst modes for Epic or Epic Dragon. I love the continuous high frame rate rolls, but I would guess if they implemented a short burst mode we could get even higher frame rates in short controlled bursts... I hope one day they implement this...
 
It wouldn't surprise me if at some point on Red.com ... the double rate SSDs become available again.
(I completely guess this will happen when the Scarlet dragons upgrades kick off).

Following wider availability of the double data rate media, and a stable production ready dragon firmware .. I predict the Dragon version will get a beta build with a 60%+ increase in frame rates for the 512GB SSDs. Followed later a futher wave of eeking this up.

(dreamer) AJ.
 
Yeah...I wanted to do this with 2 DVXs back in the day. Unfortunately there was no way to sync those up properly. I proposed wiring a second DV tape mechanism to another DVX and offsetting the two recorders by half a frame. So one lens, two recorders. Granted, I had no idea how this stuff worked, but I was proud of the thought back in the day! lol!
 
I've seen this done with a pair of Phantoms for some crazy high frame rates. Standard syncing is not enough. One needs to be able to sync the shutters with far greater precision than normal, especially in high speed. Phantoms are purpose-built for this. In the end I would agree with others that, having been there and knowing what it takes, you don't want to mess with a pair of EPICs to achieve something you can do on a single Phantom Flex4K.
 
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