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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

what does sony, panasonic say about red!!

Zakaree Sandberg

Zakaree Sandberg

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i bet you all wanted to see what they say about red! but so do i.. thats why im posting this. anyone have any articles with quotes from any of these companies?
last i heard some reps were spitting out "vaporware".. but now that footage has been shown.. spike being built.. and so on, i havent heard anything.
 
I'd say those reps are trying to avoid the subject as if it was some (excuse me) genital infection. I know I would if I were them.
 
They're probably too busy figuring out rebate programs that will make their cameras look attractive - as they say, "You can put lipstick on a pig..." :)
 
maybe they arent worried too much.. because the consummer market is of much more value to them.. how many f900's, varicams, or dalsa's do they actually sell..?
i think arri and sony are at more risk.. (sony makes the panavision genesis right?.. pana just panavised it.. correct?)
 
I think Red is going to cut into their lower end $10K-30K market as well. (Just look at the recent JVC rebate program for their brand new cameras.)

Why buy one of those cameras that will end up being a spendy doorstop in 3 years or less, when you can get a camera that is built to be upgradeable?
 
i just looked at jvc new hd200u or whatever and the 250.. i find it funny how its so obvious that they purposly dont put the "extra" stuff from the 250 into the 200. there is no way those extra adapters and the fact that it can output timecode shoudl cost an extra 3-4 grand. and your right.. if you buy that crap.. its just gunna be outdated in april;-)
 
RED's progress thus far undoubtedly caused Sony's 4k camera announcement.

"Company executives estimated that it will take two to three years to release the camera and system, which they said will create better resolution when combined with their 4K projector, "

Two to three years for Sony.... but so far..around one year for the RED...and basically starting from scratch.

Without RED, 4k cameras would only be a pipe dream for most of us.
 
at LA DV expo panasonic floor person said RED would never reach the market place, it's ALL BS " the price tells you that" ... i mentioned that the day before i saw a screening of 4k clips and his response was "did you see the camera?"
 
donatello said:
at LA DV expo panasonic floor person said RED would never reach the market place, it's ALL BS " the price tells you that" ... i mentioned that the day before i saw a screening of 4k clips and his response was "did you see the camera?"
Click to expand...
i remember hearing you say that.. thats funny
 
Well whatever Sony and Panasonic do, be it rebates, more camera for less, etc, we're the ones who benefit.

Not everyone needs or wants a Red camera. Data centric workflow doesn't work for everyone.

I wouldn't be surprised if the HVX-200A comes out WITH two P2 cards costing under $5k.

Red just accelerates things.
 
Sony baloney

Sony baloney

Market stratification strategies that leverage a common base platform have been employed for years. Remember the "crippling" of the original Sony VX-1000s by unlocking the audio to try and dissuade the low end broadcasters from jumping to Mini-DV from BetaSP. Sony has long been one of the most egregious offenders as they actually have discrete divisions within their infrastructure to market to each strata of customers and try mightily to wall each channel off.

Almost 10 years ago I spent $25K to buy a Sony DXC30 head with DVCAM back and BQ Fujinnon zoom. I still go out with it regularly but if I wanted to upgrade what would I have to choose from? Let's use the RedOne with the 18-85 Red Zoom, 3 Red Drives and some accessories as a reference point of around $30-35K - I already have Anton bricks, decent sticks, Lectro package, et al. Guess what, the units aimed at the Broadcast market from Sony and Panny are in the same price range. XDCAM-HD anyone, of course we're talking 1/2" chips and brutal compression rates but at least the workflow is easy and the media cheap and easy to archive. Panny is releasing some P2 based rigs with 2/3" chips that are promising an H.264 codec upgrade by NAB so that you can cram more footage onto the P2 cards - which are going to get cheaper any day now :D . I have seen demos of the Thompson Infinity but does anyone actually have one yet? Keep in mind that a decent B4 HD zoom lens for any of these rigs is north of $20K.

From a price standpoint these are the direct competitors to the RedOne, not the Varicam (even with the recent price drop) or the Sony F900 series which are far pricier. From a performance standpoint one might argue that the Varicam and F900 series cameras are of sufficent quality to meet producer and audience expectations so why aim higher. I think that argument is specious because it assumes that display tech is static and that given exposure to better images audience expectations won't adjust. Don't even get me started on the value of creating assets that will hold up a decade or two down the road when display tech is substantially better and home screens are commonly over 70" diagonal.

The adoption of IT centric post workflows will not happen overnight, the installed base of major manufacturer cameras, decks, et al will not become obsolete overnight. The highly trained people who use and service the existing infrastucture will look to extend the useful life of their skill sets. When Ted bills himself as the leader of the Rebellion it is more than just a homage to Princess Leia. The new paradigm will be birthed with a lot of screaming from the Sony's of the world.

Get ready for a serious disinformation campaign, they are already planning it.

Blair S. Paulsen
RedOne #19
 
As far as Sony and Panasonic are concerned they will have lost around 1000+ customers that many of which probably wouldn't have been buying their $200k cameras anyway. I doubt they'll be all to bothered given they are worth as much as they are and have as many fingers in different pies as they do.

They'll simply continue to monopolise the market with aftersales BS that the studios will continue to eat up and invest heavily in their overpriced systems.

The independent film maker has never really been the top of their list, infact I doubt it's been the top of any camera makers list until the likes of RED, SI and Kinetta. The large majority of indy's spending as little as possible on production doesn't often appeal to many manufacturers but is a key demographic of any startup company entering into a saturated industry.

That said I'm sure they will learn from Red's approach and steal alot of ideas and come up with something very similar that'll keep them in the race, it's whether they choose to adopt a similar price structure that is of interest and should they do so we are all winners.
 
I would bet that the day RED ONE is used on a "major" shoot, with its beautiful picture quality for all to see, Sony and Panny and Pana will have some explaining to do to the studio bean counters.
 
David Stump has already been asked by a director to use RED on a feature in 2007. If the camera ships as planned, we will be seeing a number of big features shot with RED next summer. Hopefully we will be able to see some of them released in 4k at Landmark.
 
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