Scarlet owners- Upgrade or trade-in? Epic-X or Scarlet-D? What say you and WHY?

[Mark T Workman]

I went with the EPIC-MX upgrade because I've decided to stop chasing the latest and greatest and finally settle with good pro level camera. Considering the number of big budget feature films shot with the EPIC, i forsee it being useful for many years. Also, I'm now not forced to upgrade to Adobe CC.

I seriously HATE where the market is going (right now) with making Dragon files a CC rental situation and my $3.5K plus investment in CS master suite's software OBSOLETE and a non-starter with Dragon. I also got what may be the craziest serial number with 0123 on my Scarlet which has given me enormous pause about the trade in!

I had half a mind to make RED a sealed offer on an Epic X just because I feel it would be so great to use in conjunction with my Scarlet (as is) but like several others, I'm just not crazy enough to be investing more in cameras that ARE NOT PAYING THEIR WAY though I love them dearly! I'm going to use what I have that I can edit with NOW AT NO ADDITIONAL COST and format around this, improve the rig I have and continue waiting for the HYPE dust to settle on this over saturated market where everyone is looking for new ways to tack on additional charges! I've heard the Dragon patch would actually work with CS6 too but Adobe just won't sell it which makes me MORE THAN willing to get off this merry go round for a while...

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

My path seems to be getting clearer.

Plan A:

1) Choose the Scarlet-X to Epic-X trade-in. $9,500
2) Upgrade video card (EVGA GeForce GTX TITAN HydroCopper Signature Video Card) $1500
3) Get busy and shoot the Epic-X.
4) Make the $10K back.
5) Upgrade to Epic-Dragon.
6) Bliss

Simple. Goal oriented.

OR

Plan B:

1) Choose the Scarlet-X to Scarlet-D upgrade. $9500
2) Upgrade video card (EVGA GeForce GTX TITAN HydroCopper Signature Video Card) $1500
3) Get busy and shoot the Scarlet-Dragon.
4) Bliss
5) Make the $10K back.

Simpler. Can achieve now.

 

[Maik Müller]

Plan B:

1) Choose the Scarlet-X to Scarlet-D upgrade. $9500
2) Upgrade video card (EVGA GeForce GTX TITAN HydroCopper Signature Video Card) $1500
3) Get busy and shoot the Scarlet-Dragon.
4) Bliss
5) Make the $10K back.

Simpler. Can achieve now.

6.) Make more money to buy a EPIC-D (and use Scarlet-D as B-cam)

I tend more and more to this solution, without the PC-upgrade being part of my decision-making process. I need a new PC anyway, hehe.

 

[Mark T Workman]

6.) Make more money to buy a EPIC-D (and use Scarlet-D as B-cam)

I tend more and more to this solution, without the PC-upgrade being part of my decision-making process. I need a new PC anyway, hehe.

I like the way you think Maik! Bottom line, make money to buy! Still waiting for Adobe to announce Ae CC Dragon support and try to dig up some Dragon files to see how the present state of my super computer plays those files back too! Wondering out loud whether Speed Grade might actually be the single best CC application option now if (like me) you're getting screwed on your CS and may only want to choose one again for next year!?!?

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

So after talking to my BOMB rep I can confirm 2 things about the upcoming Scarlet-Dragon:

1) Scarlet-Dragon will use the exact same sensor (physical dimensions, etc) as Epic-Dragon, but it won't be able to do 6K due to "other internal components within the Scarlet-Dragon".
2) This also means that Scarlet-Dragon WILL NOT be able to attain a 19MP image because the sensor requires a 6K physical coverage to attain that resolution.

For me, this is significant.

 

[Jett He]

So there is ZERO 6k usability, even at 12fps? I'm sure if it's capable of 48fps at 5k, it can definitely do 15fps at 6k. I would love to have 6k for stills.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

No 6K, even at 12fps. A lot of people wanted 6K even at 12fps or lower just for stills, just like what Scarlet-X does now with 5K, but that won't happen. So, if you want 6K 19MP you would need an Epic-Dragon.

So there is ZERO 6k usability, even at 12fps? I'm sure if it's capable of 48fps at 5k, it can definitely do 15fps at 6k. I would love to have 6k for stills.

 

[Dave Summers]

No 6K, even at 12fps. A lot of people wanted 6K even at 12fps or lower just for stills, just like what Scarlet-X does now with 5K, but that won't happen. So, if you want 6K 19MP you would need an Epic-Dragon.

Well everyone, don't be too shocked if down the line, they allow 6K at a low framerate through a firmware update

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

Well everyone, don't be too shocked if down the line, they allow 6K at a low framerate through a firmware update

Dave:

Well, according to RED, 6K cannot be done on the Scarlet-Dragon because of hardware limitations not related to the sensor. This doesn't sound like it can be improved through firmware.

 

[Maik Müller]

Well everyone, don't be too shocked if down the line, they allow 6K at a low framerate through a firmware update

Don't expect that, and don't take this in consideration if you're going to buy a Scarlet. RED has made it clear from the beginning, no 6k on Scarlet-D, unless they change their plans before(!) the release, there is not much reason to hope a change on this at all.

RED has never touched the 5k-limitations on Scarlet, because of technical reasons. Lots of people didn't believe that, but we don't know the full interna and tech-details. You can't just do some math on processing power and assume it should do that and this, it just doesn't work this way.

That being said, i would love to have 6k stills or even motion on Scarlet, but i don't think this is going to happen, again, Jim and Jarred made that very clear.

I just wonder, can we use 6k-lookaround on a Scarlet-D? Maybe output such a signal in 4k through HDMI?

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Marcos,

What do you shoot mainly? I upgraded from Scarlet to Epic-X because I film a lot of my friend's electronic shows - having to change from 4K to 3K just to get 48fps drove me nuts, especially with the limited time I have to capture him grooving and the crowd going nuts.

5K on the Epic-X is amazing for my work, and I can't wait to eventually upgrade to the Dragon sensor so I can pull 19MP stills from 6K and utilize the great color science and low-light capabilities.

For you, based upon what you're interested in, the Epic-X and eventually Epic-Dragon sounds like the best route. The costs are higher, but if you're smart about selling yourself and your great work, the $$ shouldn't be an issue long-term. Scarlet-D sounds nice, but you may regret in the future not being able to pull 19MP stills for clients.

 

[Eric Santiago]

For me its a no brainer.

Once I fired up my Scarlet and started dabbling with high frame rates, I knew I had to move up eventually.

I will however honor my commitment to my Scarlet and get as much as I can creatively in 24 fps and up.

Someday soon, my EPIC will come home

 

[Thomas Koba]

I choose to keep my Scarlet MX and buy an new Epic-X. Then later I´ll upgrade the Epic to Dragon. The Scarlet will then be my backup body, if anthing goes wrong on set.

The upgrade Scalret to Epic is 9500 bucks. A brand new Epic-X is 17000 bucks. The 7000 bucks are worth using on a backup solution for me, when that day comes, when the set is without a working camera.

Must add, that I´m the only one with a Red camera in my country, and backup bodies can be flown in on a 1 - 2 day notice. But this would cost rentals for travel time too, both into and out of country.

Mekes me feel safer also, having that extra body for emergencies.... but if the SSD modules goes bad...then I´m toast

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

Marcos,

What do you shoot mainly?...

Brendan:

It's funny but the Scarlet in a way limits what kind of material I shoot, mainly because of the fps limitation. I have been on so many events (weddings, sporting events, etc) where although I was able to capture great footage at normal fps rates with my Scarlet-X, I wished I could have the ability to stay at 4K (let alone 5K) and select a higher fps on the spot. Instead I have to go down to 2K to get 60fps, and sometimes its either too soft, or the FOV with the current lens simply doesn't work for that moment.

The only thing holding me back about the EPIC-X trade-in program is that I won't be able to add RED ARMOR to it, which for the life of me I can't explain RED's reasoning behind this decision, given this is a brand new body and all. For me this is important because since my eventual end goal is Epic-Dragon, I would either need to live with the 90-day sensor warranty when I upgrade, or sell the Epic-X, and then buy the Epic-Dragon (X) at 24K when that becomes available natively in the RED store to be able to add RED ARMOR to it. 4 years of coverage vs 90 days.

 

[Eric Santiago]

The only thing holding me back about the EPIC-X trade-in program is that I won't be able to add RED ARMOR to it...

For myself, I was told by BOMB Rep that my Scarlet's RED ARMOR will be added (November 2012 purchase) to my EPIC upgrade.

Of course only as good as when you pull the trigger

 

[BrendanLeahy]

For myself, I was told by BOMB Rep that my Scarlet's RED ARMOR will be added (November 2012 purchase) to my EPIC upgrade.

Of course only as good as when you pull the trigger

Yes, I believe I was told as well that the remaining time you have left on your RED Armor will be added to the Epic-X

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

So I did it!

Trading in my Scarlet-X for a brand new Epic-X.

My Reason: My end goal is 6K Epic-Dragon, and I want RED ARMOR on it.

My Plan: Eventually sell the Epic-X, not trade it in, because is the only way to be able to add RED ARMOR on an Epic-Dragon-X, so 4 years of coverage instead of the sensor upgrade 90 day warranty.

This works for me.

 

[Paul Schneider]

Epic will be a perfectly viable production camera for the next couple years.

 

[Nick Fury]

So I did it!

Trading in my Scarlet-X for a brand new Epic-X.

My Reason: My end goal is 6K Epic-Dragon, and I want RED ARMOR on it.

My Plan: Eventually sell the Epic-X, not trade it in, because is the only way to be able to add RED ARMOR on an Epic-Dragon-X, so 4 years of coverage instead of the sensor upgrade 90 day warranty.

This works for me.

Hi Marcos,

I have been espousing this warranty issue as meritorious, especially, for those, whose cameras will be heavily used, for some years. Really a simple analysis, just at face, let alone, with a more detailed one, factoring, cap. and repair costs, IBIDA, etc. etc....

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Christophe Deshoux]

Hi everyone,
I recently posted a close to this one topic.
The conclusion would be the same about the update to the Dragon.
The certainty is that it will not be ready (distributed) before 2014.
After, you know that it will logically not free of bugs that we could do without. It will take time before everything stabilizes.
So for those who have a Scarlet ... so go to a safe value: the Epic ... and so in 2014, go to the Dragon when it is "confirmed" as stable.

C.