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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Something Special... ( REDCINE-X )

Terry VerHaar said:
I guess the question then is - does the new RCX rely more on CUDA or OpenCL? Do I at least have the question right? Is the 7950 better or equal on OpenCL performance? (Why can't this be simple, like camera technology? :smiley:)
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One would assume RCX will be using OpenCL, since Jarred expects the new Mac Pro to be quick and it has AMD cards in it and thus will not support CUDA.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I think for right now the best two Mac GPUs are the GTX680 Mac Edition and the Radeon 7950 for Mac. As to which one will perform better in RC-X, that would be a question for RED. If and when they get the Mac version to a point they're ready to talk about it.
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Isn't the 600 series seriously crippled when it comes to GPU processing? I would think it's still possible to hunt down a 3 gig GTX580.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Correct. No Titan on Mac. The Titan can be made to work on the Mac, but driver support for it is incomplete. I just tried it again this past weekend... IMO, that's a lot of money to spend on a GPU that's only half-assed supported and may never be fully supported. Hacked firmware or not, if the drivers don't provide full support, it isn't going to work to its abilities. I think for right now the best two Mac GPUs are the GTX680 Mac Edition and the Radeon 7950 for Mac. As to which one will perform better in RC-X, that would be a question for RED. If and when they get the Mac version to a point they're ready to talk about it.
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The support for it is in Mavericks. I tested the kexts from Mavericks Developer Preview 5 in 10.8.4 and they enabled OpenCL. Maybe we'll get that support in 10.8.5 too which could be released any minute.
 
Mike Halper said:
The support for it is in Mavericks. I tested the kexts from Mavericks Developer Preview 5 in 10.8.4 and they enabled OpenCL. Maybe we'll get that support in 10.8.5 too which could be released any minute.
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Even if not, Mavericks should be out within 2 months. With all the under-the-hood stuff they talked about when they previewed it at WWDC, I'd be shocked if the new Mac Pro shipped without Mavericks.
 
For the umpteenth time I cry out for a cross platform mezzanine codec with similar file size and quality metrics to ProRes444.

TIFF, DPX and OpenEXR are simply too large for widespread use at 4K, not to mention the greater file management overhead of image sequences vs clip based media.

Agree with Jarred that Adobe is a good candidate for propagating a cross platform codec that can carry enough image data in the 150-300MB/s UHD/4K@24fps range to hold up in most post pipelines. Heavy comp work and other intricate VFX can still be done in image sequences, but few people can ROI the heavy iron it would take to push that much data around for everything they do at UHD/4K.

To be clear, I'm not calling out RED like its their duty to solve this. That said, it would benefit users of their technology quite a bit.

Cheers - #19
 
But how receptive is Apple likely to be to embrace and support a "standard" out of Adobe? They didn't exactly love Flash. LOL
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
For the umpteenth time I cry out for a cross platform mezzanine codec with similar file size and quality metrics to ProRes444.

TIFF, DPX and OpenEXR are simply too large for widespread use at 4K, not to mention the greater file management overhead of image sequences vs clip based media.

Agree with Jarred that Adobe is a good candidate for propagating a cross platform codec that can carry enough image data in the 150-300MB/s UHD/4K@24fps range to hold up in most post pipelines. Heavy comp work and other intricate VFX can still be done in image sequences, but few people can ROI the heavy iron it would take to push that much data around for everything they do at UHD/4K.

To be clear, I'm not calling out RED like its their duty to solve this. That said, it would benefit users of their technology quite a bit.

Cheers - #19
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H.265 ?
 
Blair,

that codec has been here for a long time, is called Cineform, or used to be anyway. Cross platform, JPEG200 based, very high precision, several quality levels all the way up to 4444 and Adobe worked with them for a very long time. They could have bought them out, or license them, but did not do so and do not seem very willing to take on that. And GoPro just bought Cineform to improve the codec on their cameras instead!!! Without inflaming any MAC-PC wars here, ProRes is a piss poor cross platform codec, plays horribly on PC and STILL has legacy gamma issues on MAC. The Cineform, or something like it, has been there for a long time, yet it has been one of those elephants everybody has chosen to ignore...
 
Jaakko Rinne said:
Isn't the 600 series seriously crippled when it comes to GPU processing? I would think it's still possible to hunt down a 3 gig GTX580.
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It's crippled if you want to go beyond 32bit single precision. Other than that, the performance is mostly comparable to the prior generation Fermi cards (GTX570/580, etc..). The Fermi GPUs are out of production and are starting to get harder to find. The GTX Titan is built on the NV-GK114 GPU, same as the new Quadro K6000, and it supports FP32 and 64bit operations and excels for increased precision in computational tasks. I can't speak for RC-X acceleration, but for Adobe Premiere and Resolve, they are single precision and the GTX680 cards work just fine. GTX680 is just a fuzz faster than a GTX580. And I think most of it has to do with much faster I/O performance and onboard RAM.

The Titan is a great card, but I've found the GTX690 (two GK110's or dual GTX680's on one card) will outperform the Titan at a lot of tasks that can utilize multiple GPUs. They're both about the same price, my preference would be to the Titan for it's overall more powerful abilities on a single GPU.

Mike Halper said:
The support for it is in Mavericks. I tested the kexts from Mavericks Developer Preview 5 in 10.8.4 and they enabled OpenCL. Maybe we'll get that support in 10.8.5 too which could be released any minute.
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Yes, in Mavericks and it's still incomplete. Unfortunately. I think all we can do is hope that there will be NVidia offerings for the new Mac Pro and driver development will continue for NVidia GPUs on the Mac platform. I have a hunch that we'll see nVidia offerings, possibly even support for Titan cards and/ or Quadros. Apple has not really been driving the point home, but the GPU form factor in the new Mac Pro is an open spec and it's just as much Intel's design. AMD/ATI are on board with it, we'll see what NVidia does. IMO, it makes a lot of sense as it moves the actual display interface off of the GPU cards and should provide for smaller form factors and more streamlined hardware options. It's specifically designed for multi-GPU and computational setups. I'm hopeful that PC makers will adopt, however the PC industry is in the doldrums and as of late has been completely disinterested in new form factors or interfaces. Or at least they're only interested in the new if it can perpetuate the old. USB 3.1 and SATA Express will do fine.

New Mac Pro will ship with Mavericks. That was confirmed along with the next FCPX major update to also coincide with the Mac Pro launch.


As for codecs, I also agree that Adobe is in a good position to offer something. Cineform is not the answer, IMO. And with GoPro in the mix it's fading fast. GoPro doesn't seem to know what to do with it.

Björn Benckert said:
H.265 ?
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LOL.
 
If a 3GB GTX580 will do 24/25fps at 4k I'll be thrilled.
 
Maybe we should shoot everything on GoPros...

Maybe we should shoot everything on GoPros...

Bjorn - H.265 for distribution yes. For post pipeline, not so much. Theoretically at a high enough data rate it might be possible to make H.265 hold up in post, but its really not designed for it.

Rudi - Cineform is a fine example of what I'm seeking, technically. Sadly, it has never been embraced in the marketplace in such a way as to make it viable for widespread adoption. Had Adobe chosen to commit to Cineform, they might very well have made it not only ubiquitous but also given it the engineering support a company like Adobe can muster - but they didn't.

Bottom line, when I bring up Cineform in a workflow consultation at least one of the stakeholders (creative editorial, asset management, VFX, grading/finishing) won't sign off as its not supported by at least one key tool they rely on.

Cheers - #19
 
If GoPro gave the Cineform codec away to everybody and didn't charge as much for the plugin as most companies do for a full software package suite, and if they supported it fully on both the mac/windows platforms, then it would be an ideal choice, but there are always lots of little quirks and hiccups (i.e. the sound is off sync a frame or two or periodically dropped frames for no discernible reason), often an extended delay in support every time there's an update to any OS or software its suppose to work with natively, and its high maintenance as a third party plugin and requires everyone to re-purchase the software every time there is a major update. When it works it works very well, we were doing Cineform 4k online editing 3 years ago in mostly realtime, but there's always a quirk or hiccup somewhere along the workflow and was never truly stable. If I want to work with Cineform GoPro clips without major restrictions I have to buy their software/plugins, so if I can't work with their own codec natively without spending more on the software then their own camera, I seriously doubt they want anyone else to use their codec at this point.
 
Jaakko Rinne said:
One would assume RCX will be using OpenCL, since Jarred expects the new Mac Pro to be quick and it has AMD cards in it and thus will not support CUDA.
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Well ... I certainly hope and assume it is OpenCL - but for the record - ONE model of the new Mac Pro, shown in a preview - has AMD cards. Not sure why folks are so quick to assume there will not be a Mac Pro option with Nvidia as well.
 
Agreed Shiblon, which is why Adobe might have been the right vendor to clean up the issues you mention since they have a large team of experienced engineers in house. Hard to see the upside for GoPro in putting the kind of resources into Cineform that would likely be required, with, unless I'm missing something, no significant revenue stream opportunity.

Adobe's commitment to cross platform and cloud architecture, combined with their many tentacles in imaging applications and sheer size makes them the best candidate I can think of. Of course they are also the company that is apparently bailing on CinemaDNG...

Cheers - #19
 
Adobe is backing off cinemaDNG because its being rolled into another spec, tentatively Tiff2, or what ever its finalized name will be. But that's probably a year out or more, and they don't want to alienate other companies that have codecs.
 
Shiblon Wixom said:
Adobe is backing off cinemaDNG because its being rolled into another spec, tentatively Tiff2, or what ever its finalized name will be. But that's probably a year out or more, and they don't want to alienate other companies that have codecs.
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Good to know, thanks.

Cheers - #19
 
Yes, that's interesting about CinemaDNG. And seems like promising news.
 
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