Resolve vs Colorista II vs Speedgrade or any tips appreciated..

[Gabor D.]

Hey,
Resolve 9 won't run on my Intel HD 4000 graphics card. I can move to an iMac for color grading, but I would like to make it work on my current MBP 13". I found Vincent Laforet's blog about Adobe Speedgrade. Later I read Philip Bloom's blog and on current project he used Red Giant's Colorista II. My editing platform is FCPX.

How these three softwares compare to each other? Resolve Lite 9, colorista ii and Speedgrade?

thanks

 

[Gabor D.]

And what is the resommended minimum iMac configuration to be able to work with Resolve in a reasonable manner?

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I use the M-Link Thunderbolt enclosure with my 27" iMac and I can easily grade in 1/2 res with Speedgrade.

 

[Michael Romano]

For Resolve you at LEAST need a discrete GPU with 1GB VRAM. That's the simplest way to explain what is essentially a loaded question...

 

[Mark Britton]

Speedgrade and Resolve are finishing tools. Finish your edit, have the picture locked down, then go to Resolve or Speedgrade to color grade and finish your picture.

Colorista II is a plugin for an NLE. This means you could potentially do color grading inside your NLE.

Resolve and Speedgrade, being purpose built for finishing, have a powerful array of tools for color grading. Colorista II is more or less constrained by the plugin interface of its host NLE, and really doesn't have the breadth of tools and options.

All three of these tools have trial (or free versions) available. Take advantage of that, try them out yourself. Think about how you plan to use this kind of tool, try them out on a sample of your own work. See if any of them "click" for you, or just don't fit or work out for how you do things.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'll jump in here as I own and use all of these packages and actually on a system without a Red Rocket card, although I am picking up the Red Rocket-X card.

What Mark has said is correct about Colorista. There's some other interesting plugins as well for your NLE that might be worth looking at such as Magic Bullet Looks and FilmLight's Baselight plugin if you are on Final Cut X or Avid.

However, real color suites are essentially their own tools all together. DaVinci Resolve 10 is right around the corner and has some tremendous new features, however it will require fairly specific hardware (GPU or multiple GPUs with a good bit of RAM on them), which for some folks isn't exactly cost effective yet somewhat necessary if you are working with 4K+ material.

On the flip side, Adobe's (Iridas created) Speedgrade can be used with much more modest GPUs at the cost of performance, but it still functions. Speedgrade has recently been integrated a bit nicer into Premiere Pro with the CC update and you can directly apply your .look files on the timeline. You could also create a LUT and do it that way, but that's not a lovely full solution, but great if you need to rush out some material.

I'll leave the higher end suites out of this equation for now, because that's not what we're talking about here. Although I'm big fan of Baselight.

I actually don't know if I have a preference between Speedgrade and Resolve. I like both, but I also like features unique to both. For node based correction chains Resolve is great at visually separating and managing your work. For real deep control over your shadows, midtones, and highlights I feel Speedgrade's Lumetri Deep Color Engine really plays wonderfully with .R3Ds, but is currently limited to a "layer" architecture. There are actually things I would change about both applications to make them more user friendly. Resolve 10 has some new edit features within the program itself, which is nice and should assist with a fuller ability to finish within the program. I only played with it for a bit at NAB 2013, but it's around the corner.

I've been using DaVinci's color tools for what feels like forever (since DaVinci 2K even). Color tools are incredibly advanced these days and it's hard to go wrong, but you can go wrong if you don't consider your workflow and the cost of "full solution" for your particular way of working. I'd check out the trails if you can and make a decision after working with the packages for approximately 3 days. That should tell you a lot.

Interestingly enough, Redcine-X Pro has also become significantly more advanced over the years. That is part of my personal workflow with Red material and should be acknowledge if that's what material you are working with.

 

[Paul Russell]

At least Resolve and RCX support the Tangent Element. Colouring without those three balls is incredibly difficult.

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

I haven't tried ColouristaII with the Adobe CC but with CS6 the power windows would only work in After Effects so you're not working in realtime (personally that drives me nutso), if you're not going to use power windows/keying of Colourista you can just use the built-in colour effects in Premiere. Resolve is my favorite to use, it does have specific system requirements but you can get a lot done quickly (with a control surface).

 

[Stephane Marino]

Maybe the new direct link between premiere and speedgrade makes it a no brainer for premiere user ?

 

[jake blackstone]

I'll jump in here as I own and use all of these packages and actually on a system without a Red Rocket card, although I am picking up the Red Rocket-X card.

What Mark has said is correct about Colorista. There's some other interesting plugins as well for your NLE that might be worth looking at such as Magic Bullet Looks and FilmLight's Baselight plugin if you are on Final Cut X or Avid.

However, real color suites are essentially their own tools all together. DaVinci Resolve 10 is right around the corner and has some tremendous new features, however it will require fairly specific hardware (GPU or multiple GPUs with a good bit of RAM on them), which for some folks isn't exactly cost effective yet somewhat necessary if you are working with 4K+ material.

On the flip side, Adobe's (Iridas created) Speedgrade can be used with much more modest GPUs at the cost of performance, but it still functions. Speedgrade has recently been integrated a bit nicer into Premiere Pro with the CC update and you can directly apply your .look files on the timeline. You could also create a LUT and do it that way, but that's not a lovely full solution, but great if you need to rush out some material.

I'll leave the higher end suites out of this equation for now, because that's not what we're talking about here. Although I'm big fan of Baselight.

I actually don't know if I have a preference between Speedgrade and Resolve. I like both, but I also like features unique to both. For node based correction chains Resolve is great at visually separating and managing your work. For real deep control over your shadows, midtones, and highlights I feel Speedgrade's Lumetri Deep Color Engine really plays wonderfully with .R3Ds, but is currently limited to a "layer" architecture. There are actually things I would change about both applications to make them more user friendly. Resolve 10 has some new edit features within the program itself, which is nice and should assist with a fuller ability to finish within the program. I only played with it for a bit at NAB 2013, but it's around the corner.

I've been using DaVinci's color tools for what feels like forever (since DaVinci 2K even). Color tools are incredibly advanced these days and it's hard to go wrong, but you can go wrong if you don't consider your workflow and the cost of "full solution" for your particular way of working. I'd check out the trails if you can and make a decision after working with the packages for approximately 3 days. That should tell you a lot.

Interestingly enough, Redcine-X Pro has also become significantly more advanced over the years. That is part of my personal workflow with Red material and should be acknowledge if that's what material you are working with.

That's funny. You're professing yourself a fan of Baselight and yet, for some strange reason, you state, that SG is "is currently limited to a "layer" architecture". Baselight is strictly layer based color grading software and no one says, that it is limited because of that. According to your thinking BL, FilmMaster, Lustre, Scratch and others are all limited.
Actually I find node based architecture better suited to compositing, than to grading. So, if anything, in my opinion, Resolve is the one, that is "limited" to node based grading. And resolve is the only software, that requires four trackballs for color grading, making the third party panels not very useful.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Colorista's secondary selection ability is faster/better than Resolve's. It's great to have all 3, as sometimes you don't have time/budget for an Xml reconfirm in Davinci, and for a quick tweak here and there Colorista II is great. SPeedgrade costs only the time to learn it, as it is free in CC

 

[Marc Wielage]

Actually I find node based architecture better suited to compositing, than to grading. So, if anything, in my opinion, Resolve is the one, that is "limited" to node based grading. And resolve is the only software, that requires four trackballs for color grading, making the third party panels not very useful.

I would disagree in that, after using Baselight for a couple of years, I was irritated because I couldn't look at a shot on BL with six layers and tell at one glance what each individual layer was doing. (This was before v4.) This made it particularly hard in team projects with multiple colorists, each using different philosophies. At least with Resolve, I can see how the nodes are affecting each other and get a better sense of the processing going on, in a straight line from left to right.

I never, ever used the 4th trackball for anything except as a color picker or as a cursor. Anything else I need to do, I just grab the mouse. [Note that the Nucoda Precision panel also has 4 trackballs, as did the Pogle Pandora Platinum, which has fallen from favor.]

I don't dispute that choice of color corrector is a personal decision, no different than choice of car, clothes, hairstyle, or anything else. Either a top Baselight or a top Resolve system can get great results in the right hands. It's more about the colorist than it is the tools. My (admittedly very brief) use of Speedgrade and Colorista tells me both are toys compared to Baselight and Resolve. I can be far more productive on a Resolve, assuming full panels and a fast system. Baselight never had the speed for me that the other systems did, but bear in mind I came from a 10-year background of working on a 2K prior to that.

I'd put Resolve, Baselight, Nucoda, and Pablo at the top, and this is kind of a Mercedes / BMW / Lexus / Range Rover comparison. All great for what they do, priced accordingly. Lustre I'd say is kind of off to the side, since it's kind of moribund with Autodesk, but people are still working with it and getting projects done. I have no experience with Mystika, but the word is it's a very fast and productive system. From a pure dollars-and-cents and performance standpoint, I'd lean far more towards Resolve in 2013.

 

[jake blackstone]

I would disagree in that, after using Baselight for a couple of years, I was irritated because I couldn't look at a shot on BL with six layers and tell at one glance what each individual layer was doing. (This was before v4.) This made it particularly hard in team projects with multiple colorists, each using different philosophies. At least with Resolve, I can see how the nodes are affecting each other and get a better sense of the processing going on, in a straight line from left to right.

Click on any layer in Baselight and just glance at the panel. It will tell you which effects where used on that layer. Even if you just use BL Editions, just click on the layer and at a glance you know what had been done. No need to hover and wait for cryptic description written in tiny lettering.
With FilmMaster just click on any layer in GUI and it will open up and will show you which effects had been used on that layer. Again, no need to hover.
Additionally, if you have crazy need to copy, say from another shot, just red hue onto selected layer's selection, just click on that layer, select hue and hit copy, while keeping everything else intact. Good luck doing that with Resolve. With Resolve you can copy the whole node or nothing at all. Zero flexibility. And yes, it's a personal preference and my preference for color grading to use layers, for compositing- nodes. It's about speed and flexibility. Resolve is anything but…

II never, ever used the 4th trackball for anything except as a color picker or as a cursor. Anything else I need to do, I just grab the mouse.

How do you grade with offsets in Log grading mode? With a mouse?

 

[Marc Wielage]

Good luck doing that with Resolve. With Resolve you can copy the whole node or nothing at all. Zero flexibility. And yes, it's a personal preference and my preference for color grading to use layers, for compositing- nodes. It's about speed and flexibility. Resolve is anything but…

Dealers' choice. I know people who can plow through 1000 cuts in a day in Resolve -- and I've certainly done it.

How do you grade with offsets in Log grading mode? With a mouse?

That's something I use once in a blue moon, very rarely. And when I do, it's a mouse. One overall adjustment, and I move on.

I know three or four major A-list colorists who make more than you and me combined who do 90% of the correction in linear mode. You know their names.

 

[Peter Moretti]

One feature that I believe Colorista has that seems much more difficult to do in Resolve is subtractive color correction. Essentially, it's emphasizing the removal complementary colors to change the color rather than adding more of the color you want increase. Please realize that I'm recalling this from a video I saw a few months ago, so I hope I've got that all right.

 

[Sean Lee]

Are colorists generally expected or required to be familiar with a broad range of applications, generally speaking?

 

[jake blackstone]

Are colorists generally expected or required to be familiar with a broad range of applications, generally speaking?

If you want to be successful and in demand, than the answer is hell yeah
And it wouldn't hurt to know different camera flavors too...

 

[Marc Wielage]

One feature that I believe Colorista has that seems much more difficult to do in Resolve is subtractive color correction. Essentially, it's emphasizing the removal complementary colors to change the color rather than adding more of the color you want increase.

There's a half-dozen different ways to accomplish this kind of effect in Resolve. It basically boils down to time and money, but also hinges very much on the nature of the original material.

Are colorists generally expected or required to be familiar with a broad range of applications, generally speaking?

It helps to have a healthy knowledge of workflow, editing, VFX, sound, and alternate color-correction systems. It used to be that the colorist was just given the final material to color-correct and that was it; now, we're expected to know how to deal with 12 different camera file formats and manage the conform, which is much more challenging today than it used to be.

I used to joke that "the job used to be about making pretty pictures; now, it's more about troubleshooting." But this has become less of a joke and more of a reality in the last five years.

 

[Sean Lee]

If you want to be successful and in demand, than the answer is hell yeah
And it wouldn't hurt to know different camera flavors too...

It helps to have a healthy knowledge of workflow, editing, VFX, sound, and alternate color-correction systems. It used to be that the colorist was just given the final material to color-correct and that was it; now, we're expected to know how to deal with 12 different camera file formats and manage the conform, which is much more challenging today than it used to be.

I used to joke that "the job used to be about making pretty pictures; now, it's more about troubleshooting." But this has become less of a joke and more of a reality in the last five years.

Thanks guys, I didn't realise this. I assumed most clients weren't fussed about the application, just that it's done well. A good colorist could do almost anything on Resolve without having to cross over to another application, for example.

 

[paulherrin]

it really depends on your skill/comfort level and how much time and money you want to invest in learning color correction techniques on a pro system and what kind of work you're doing with it...

out of all these, resolve is probably the most powerful - although i use speedgrade a lot for doing simple grades and colorista when i want to 'fix up' something fast or slap a quick look on a video and have time for slow renders. you can also get pretty far along with the rcx/source settings... there's plenty of reasons to use any of them for different kinds of projects and situations.