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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Hugh Miller said:


I must say I have thought twice about replying to this thread. In the past I was so appalled at what occasionally passed for debate here that I deleted most of my posts and moved on. However, given the speculation that is going on I feel I need to respond. Firstly I should say that that shoot ended over two years ago and a lot has changed in that time. Epic for a start, and 2D and 3D housings have progressed too, as have the rigs that support the cameras. I did a shoot last year where I logged over 120hrs in the water with the Gates Deep Atom and I will say its everything I wanted in a 3D system. Most of those 'wants' were formulated on that penguin shoot.

Firstly to respond to Mr. Achtel's post
1) Not true. The ports were strong enough as was the housing (would it be a huge surprise to you that these things had been calculated?) It was the smaller port that blew from a failure in machining, that small concussion then blew the larger port.
2) There were no cameras in the housing at the time. The details in the article are not entirely accurate.
3) There was testing before it went south, not much, given the time frame, but there was testing. It was a calculated risk, in the 'either go and try and maybe fail or dont do it at all' category. SG is sub-antarctic, to be strictly accurate.
4) I dont know how you come up with this figure. Firstly the Quasar is about three times the size of the Neutron so they cant really be put in the same weight category. Secondly although R1's were the primary topside camera (on a Quasar), in the underwater housing SI2K's were used on a Neutron beam splitter with a Cinedeck. A Red One one in a Gates was also used in the latter stages, alongside the 3D housing.

5) It may be educated but clearly not well informed and not from anyone who had any first hand knowledge of the shoot.
6) About time.
7) Well, I've likely been called worse by people who are far more important to me than you. I will say this though, its a small world, especially in underwater film making, and making derogatory statements like that on a public forum are silly at best and hardly ingratiates you with working professionals (who are potential customers, right?).

Would I go and repeat that shoot now with that equipment? No.
Within months almost all of that equipment, bar the lenses (which included zooms), was obsolete. If that shoot was repeated almost all the problems would have been mitigated.



In more general terms I would say with the greatest respect to everyone involved in that article, that its a piece of publicity (albeit industry publicity) and publicity pieces should perhaps not be relied upon for technical detail. What makes a good story two years after the event isn't necessarily exactly how it happened. I'm used to that. 'BTS' and 'Making Of's' are all interpretations put together many months later (often with the involvement of people who have a good eye for a story but were not present in the field) and again are not generally blow by blow accounts, its the same kind of thing.

The fact that any kind of housing existed given the time frame within which it had to be built was a miracle. I was the operator, I wasn't part of the build but I will defend those who were. It had many flaws but it did gather material in the end. Given more time those flaws would have been worked out. Now with Deep Atom its no longer necessary.

It was repaired back in the UK during a planned shooting break. No, it wasnt dropped off by a passing ship, that was something else, water filters or something.

For me it was just one shoot among many successful ones (from Planet Earth, Life, Frozen Planet, Africa, Wild Arabia through to current projects like Survival) but I admit it was one of the hardest in terms of dealing with the high failure rates. The shoot was very long and very remote, so its a challenge and you have to be resourceful and roll with the punches. Failure sucks, it really hurts, but it is part of the deal of trying new things.

[As an aside the top-side crew had many of their own battles to deal with. I struggle to remember a piece of kit that did not fail or had to be taken apart and dried carefully over a oil heater. SG is sub-antarctic, when its not snowing is very wet, very muddy. The only things that did not fail were the Red One's.]

I will always respect people who try something new, whether it works or not, they tried. Its easy to criticise with all the benefits of distance, time, hindsight, new tech etc but unless you were there, its difficult to do so constructively or with much authority.
If something fails you change what your doing and try again. If you keep doing the same thing expecting different results then you can be legitimately called a drongo (to paraphrase), but not before.
Don't forget that things change very quickly. Back in 2009 I filmed sailfish for 'Life' with a high-speed housing, again custom built housing for the shoot and very hard to use, 3x two second shots, 45min downloads and an external battery pack mounted on my back, but it worked and we got shots that revealed (or at least confirmed) new behaviour and went on to be opening shots in the series. I could do the same thing now with my Deep Epic with all the shot and battery time I could want, the point is, you use what you have available and if its not available then build it, be inventive. This is a creative industry after all, if it works great and if it doesnt then adapt and change, but at the very least try.

Hugh
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I've had some of the same feelings about posting in the past year, so thanks Hugh for making the effort to post.

I hope people took my post (#1155) as it was intended, which was mainly to speak generically to the issues with sealing large flat glass ports. Trying to be educational for any newbies that might be reading, and somewhat to the veterans that maybe haven't considered it, since the flat glass ports most would be familiar with were typically just the 4-5 inch circles in macro ports.


P.S. had to google drongos to see what it meant...

Hugh, "silly at best" was a very kind characterization - again, thanks for your polite and thorough response.
 
Respect Hugh !!
 
Hugh,

Thanks for the awesome clarification. I appreciate knowing what happened :)

120 hours is a ton yeash.. I pull about 300 per year that is just immense. 120 hours on a Atom yikes.
 
Michael Hastings said:
I've had some of the same feelings about posting in the past year, so thanks Hugh for making the effort to post.

I hope people took my post (#1155) as it was intended, which was mainly to speak generically to the issues with sealing large flat glass ports. Trying to be educational for any newbies that might be reading, and somewhat to the veterans that maybe haven't considered it, since the flat glass ports most would be familiar with were typically just the 4-5 inch circles in macro ports.


P.S. had to google drongos to see what it meant...

Hugh, "silly at best" was a very kind characterization - again, thanks for your polite and thorough response.
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That was a great post and completely spot on. I like acrylic ports for many reasons, thats just one more!

I also had to google it.
 
Greg F said:
Hugh,

Thanks for the awesome clarification. I appreciate knowing what happened :)

120 hours is a ton yeash.. I pull about 300 per year that is just immense. 120 hours on a Atom yikes.
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Done in 24 days of diving, we were going some thats for sure. Tremendous support crew needed for that.
 
Wonderful to see that Deep Atom is actually out there working on a number of projects in the 3D world.......well done John Ellerbrock and well done to all the technicians who have learnt to use this marvel of engineering.
 
John makes an astonishing product, well researched, technically superior in every way, input from the best shooters this planet has to offer, hard to go wrong with that.
 
Thought it's about time I should say hello.

I own a small diving resort in Lembeh, Indonesia... And luckily I have a fantastic wife who agree to let me buy and Epic and housing. I have moved on from an Sony EX-1, and the learning curve is fun/frustrating! We also have 5Dmk3, 7D and some smaller stuff on our rental catalogue.

I'm not in the Gates club, but i don't think that's a per-requisite is it? :)

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Hi Simon do you get to film Mola Mola in your area? I would love to see some Epic footage of these extraordinary animals as they are such a surreal subject.
 
I am also looking to film the secretive and very rare Drongo fish. Does anyone know which habitat it can be found?
 
Ross Isaacs said:
Hi Simon do you get to film Mola Mola in your area? I would love to see some Epic footage of these extraordinary animals as they are such a surreal subject.
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They come through occasionally, but i will head to Bali during the next few months to get some footage. I generally don't shoot anything over 6 inches long up here!
 
Many thanks Hugh for clarifications. As you said, the published material suggests a very different story. Here is another quote, which I assumed was accurate:

"A lot of the equipment was being testing out for the first time. The housing we used for the underwater sequences actually imploded the first time we put it down." [Emma Read, head of SKY factual]

I don't personally care that much which version is correct. Knowing the BBC and other media, I would probably go with your version :)

Either way, no disrespect intended. I just thought this must have been one of those moments you wish you could go back and start again... :mad2:

As Michael said, flat ports and windows are usually the weakest link.

Anyway, I look forward to see the film. I will remember the pain, effort and frustration of the making.

Ross Isaacs said:
I am also looking to film the secretive and very rare Drongo fish. Does anyone know which habitat it can be found?
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endemic to Queensland :)

I used to say that the brain capacity halves with every meter of water. At least I'm significantly affected by nitrogen at depth. I can't work out how to operate a compass below 20m...no matter how hard I try... :)

Greetings from sunny Tazzie. We have great weather at the moment and viz must be 30m. Beautifil diving.
 
Welcome to the forum Simon, you'll find a wide variety of housings in use by contributors here.

Ross, not to be confused with the salt water Drongodile?
 
just a quick update (no pictures yet as I'm still offloading footage for tomorrow's morning dive), I'm testing a few different solutions for grey-magenta tint and contrast loss in blue water. I only had a very quick look at the rushes, but it seems that our fix works as well in the field as on an optical bench - as it should, but testing doesn't hurt. I'm getting deep, rich and clean "cobalt" blues and can colour balance in RedCine X with no problem. And, yes, the problem is definately there in unmodified camera. As a bottom-dweller I haven't really experienced it before... :)

Tom Hamilton said:
Ross, not to be confused with the salt water Drongodile?
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that's too funny! LOL
 
Pawel Achtel said:
just a quick update (no pictures yet as I'm still offloading footage for tomorrow's morning dive), I'm testing a few different solutions for grey-magenta tint and contrast loss in blue water. I only had a very quick look at the rushes, but it seems that our fix works as well in the field as on an optical bench - as it should, but testing doesn't hurt. I'm getting deep, rich and clean "cobalt" blues and can colour balance in RedCine X with no problem. And, yes, the problem is definately there in unmodified camera. As a bottom-dweller I haven't really experienced it before... :)
Click to expand...
Hi Pawel,
does your solution imply a new sensor, or is it some add-on to the Epic which does not require internal modifications?
thanks for sharing :-)
 
Ron Lagerlof said:
Welcome, Simon. Certainly not, and I'd really like to get your thoughts on the Nauticam.
Best - R
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Aren't you and Erin going to Bonaire later this month?
I'm pretty sure Chris will have his "Digital Cinema System" (NA-ROSSA) with him for trials :-)
if he does, I'd also like to get your thoughts.
Have fun and say hi to Erin!
 
Well, I can't say I have tried any other red housings, but I do like mine. I have owned Gates, Amphibico and Sealux over the last 10 years for video housings; and Subal, Nexus, Aquatica, Nauticam for stills.

This is my 6th Nauticam housing, so as a user I probably have more working stock than most dealers!

Specific to the Rossa, The vacuum pump being powered by a low pressure inflator is great, although for my trip to Tonga later in the year I am improvising with a bicycle pump.

The control layout is awesome, i'm about 10 hours in underwater and I don't miss the touchscreen at all. I have all the port options already, and my macro focus gears are cross compatible. Which ended up giving me more savings.

So far I have the following lenses for underwater with focus/zoom gears:

100mm L (with or without teleconverters)
60mm EF-S
16-35mm L
10-17mm Tokina
8-15mm L

I also have the MP-E 65mm which maybe I'll give a crack on some inverts later in the week.

Lighting this stuff at F/16 and over isn't so easy as all the powerful lights I have are wide beam, I use sola 4000's and 1200's. I'll post some high fps soon, i have only noticed flicker in a couple of shots.

I edit with a new iMac and I can only view realtime at 1/8th res, which sucks. I'm considering to get a red-rocket via thunderbolt whilst I wait for the new mac-pro.
 
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