American DITs... ugghhh

[Ivan Kovax]

Quick question for you all:

Having worked in Japan for the past 6 years I discovered something new. The DIT douchebag.

For the first time in my life I recently encountered a DIT from the USA with an arrogant attitude. He acted like he was the most important person on set other than the DP and Director, and clearly made no effort to hide his love of himself from anybody.

This didn't bother me at all as I have minimal involvement with this project, but I snuk a chat to the 1st AC (also American) before I left the shoot, and he mentioned to me that apparently quite a lot of DITs in the States carry this sanctimonious attitude.

What made is worse was that he was in his early 20s, and that he was being paid over 1K/day, to do a rather average job and sit around all day pretending like he is busy and taking 3 times longer than everybody else to get anything done. For starters... why the hell are they getting as much as cameramen? And secondly, what makes them think they are so damned important? It is a purely technical job that has minimal creative impact other than "not screwing up" data backup, QC and making sure the same looking lut is applied to all shots and transcodes. The scopes were bullshit and purely for show, as he has never used them once. 1K per day is far in excess of what any DIT should be getting in salary alone... it is an important technical position but more akin to a technical version of camera assistant then next in line to the emperor. I would suggest that the focus puller's position is far more critical to the shoot than the DITs. As long as the DIT can click copy, bit check (amongst other things) and get the transcodes right...

And before anybody rants about, let me say that I know exactly what a DIT does, as I have also done the job several hundred times... and I have had some pretty major clients too.

So... explain! thanks

END

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Over 1k including gear rental? Whether or not a person's time is worth that much is a valid question, but if you've got $20k worth of gear (including software) for use, then rental is a decent penny, as well it should be . . .

I've gotten all my DIT jobs because people *like* working with me on set. I don't have the best gear, but I sure as shit can tell people in terms they understand what's going wrong when things go wrong. Also, I don't think I'm an asshole . . . not on set at least.

Anyway, there are, right now, sort of two "schools" of DIT. There's the Data Wrangling LUT Applying DIT, and then there's more of the LightIron style that is more of a segue into bring Post onto Set.

Some people are lazy, and some people are douchebags, and some people are lazy douchebags.

Some people are DITs that are bridging the gap between On Set and Post, providing numerous sets of watermarked dailies in numerous formats, from multiple formats of camera, on multiple days of shoots, logging, tracking, sound-syncing, and oh yeah, being the single person that is asserting that, Yep, we've got our footage and you won't need to reshoot that today or ever.

Sounds like your problem was with a douchebag being a douchebag. It happens. I'll gladly take his place. Dying to get over to Japan for a bit. Though, I can't promise I'd sit on my hands as much . . . is that OK?

 

[Doug Beatty]

My advice: get used to it and shrug it off. It's only you that can look bad if you start publicly calling people out. Maybe he's the director's friend or the producer's nephew. You never know so it's best to ignore it and move along.

-BUT-

Know that these personalities won't make it to the highest level. The people that rise to the top work hard and put their own self importance second to the needs of the show.

I remember people that have terrible attitudes/personalities and use that as motivation to work my way up so I can have a voice about replacing them with people that have great attitudes.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Hey Nick,

Haha... good reply.

He had a macpro, with redrocket and scratch installed. However this was all rental gear. His DIT labour only rate was 1K/day.

I suggested to the production afterwards that he could have done a similar job with redcine x, a retina and a rocket mobile... Scratch was next to useless on this project. I guess I still find it confounding that people still need dallies other then opening the project in its raw form and editing... This on my MBPr... generally my american clients need DNxHD, and locals need a flavour of prores. I can understand if it needs compositing, but really...

When I open up premiere pro... and edit something on set in real time, people become quite shocked... one can even add watermarks in the free version of davinci...

I thought it was the assistant editor's role to do audio synching?

 

[Ivan Kovax]

My advice: get used to it and shrug it off. It's only you that can look bad if you start publicly calling people out. Maybe he's the director's friend or the producer's nephew. You never know so it's best to ignore it and move along.

-BUT-

Know that these personalities won't make it to the highest level. The people that rise to the top work hard and put their own self importance second to the needs of the show.

I remember people that have terrible attitudes/personalities and use that as motivation to work my way up so I can have a voice about replacing them with people that have great attitudes.

Oh, trust me... It barely broke a sweat on my brow. I was more amused than anything. I am just confounded by the lack of perspective and the amazing attitude.

I have heard from many Foreign (to Japan) productions that some DITs are getting out of control... I guess this was the proof in the pudding

 

[BigLu]

Those Damnh Americans =) They are so bad ass arnt they.
Ok kidding aside.


Click and copy is cute and yes thats the job often times but thinking of the bigger jobs.
TV and Cinema. Union level and so forth.

DITs can be douchey I get it. Ive heard it from producers asking me about a DIT and why they dislike them, and I've had AC's comment on DITs also why they are off put by them.
I myself have rubbed Producers , DPs and ACs in the wrong ways several times.
Im not proud of it but it happens on set more often than i wish.
When things are going smooth everyone is happy, in love and friendly. But when theres a problem guess what I got to give them the bad new and provide options, some of these options cost money, or make people look bad and in some cases get people fired or not re-hired in the future.

As for the Douche DITs I'm thinking about. They are amazing, they deliver and do a GREAT JOB. So they get called back because they know what they are doing and protect the footage, deliver a quality product and cover lots of peoples backs. Therefor they get to do more big jobs, adding to their feeling of elitist attitude on set because they keep working non stop.

I have DIT for a while now, and in my experience its a large lack of knowledge from the Producers, DPs, Acs, and even post guys whom simply SCREW THINGS up so bad that the DIT has to somehow convince people to change their ways or things will content to come out unfavorably.
This process SUCKS BIG TIME. IT causes fights, arguments, shit talking, makes people hate the other department, flat out upsets so many people. that the DIT is the bad guy. Mix that in with production cutting corners, providing USB drives vs Esata, or not enough drives, or not enough time, or bad food or cheap wages only complicates the issues and makes it even suck more.
Provide an editor whom has no clue how to deal with the footage or an AC whom just does not get it and is mad cuz you make more money then him, or a DP whom HATES RED because he missed Film. Or a producer whom does not want to pay you for the 16 hours you worked and knows thats coming again because they provided you with cheap drives.
= a mad DIT trying hard to keep everything going well.

As for the pay rate.
A good DIT can provide an amazing amount of equipment and knowledge that can protect an entire project, movie, show ect.
Computer systems go anywhere between 10K and 40k depending on how wide buit they are. In some cases even more higher.
That plus the knowledge usually to be able to blend between smoothly between camera department and post. Potentially understanding post very well and the camera very well its of a higher value than most.

Why do i agree with the rate of an operator?
Well from experience personally I can and do operate, I used to AC, I do run post productions, I can and do Edit, I have do and love to color grade, I understand visual FX pipeline, and I shoot with the camera non stop year round.
I can step into any of these roles and sometimes have to.
The understanding of camera to post and reverse back is where lost of the value lays.
Data manager can protect your footage
but a good DIT can protect your entire movie and save you lots of time, headache and money.

Add that to a good DIT cart. It is a reasonable rate to hear over $1,000 for a full days work if they bring the correct gear with them and provide onset color correction and dailies and post workflow and help post and help camera and help save the producer money.

It is the 10th hour of a shoot day with 8 more hours to go. Everyone worked 7 days straight and you have to get these last shots while the water is correct and conditions are right.
Your well into the night, all stores are closed and all tech support is off for the day...
Sometimes major problems happen, drives fail out of anyones control they just die. Or the camera does something NOBODY on set can fix or footage is in properly exposed because a setting was off during the last 2 hours of shooting, or something is just so messed up it will cause to you shoot another day and you may not have another day.
Talent is leaving to another set, permits are expiring act ect. The Director needs to have this shot or it will change the entire project.

who's everyone turn to????? The DIT BABY. better hope he's good and you didn't cheap out.

Im 6'4 ex football player beard, long hair, and have gained more weight than ill admit.
So by first glance I look like a complete asshole and JERK.
I know the feeling of how they look at us.

But were not all douches, we are miss understood.

But you having worked several hundred times as a DIT you already know all this stuff. =)

BTW AMERICA FUCK YAAAA!!

Me im a total goof ball and love to mess around all day long, way too damn much.

Lu


EDIT from reading the rest of replies, sounds like that was a DIT that got lucky.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

So... explain! thanks

END

#1: The business is changing. Fast. Every week.

#2: Post is now on set. Assistant Editors are a thing of the Past. Asking a 1st AC to handle Post issues is silly.

#3: A DIT that can handle data, QC, color-correct live-stream video per the Director's and DP's vision, provide sync colored dailies with proper metadata, and help out the rest of the camera dept. is worth $2000 a day. A year ago this took at least 24 hours and cost at least twice as much.

#4: There were, are, and always will be Douchebags in this world.

#5: If you can't deal with working with Douchebags you're in the wrong business.

 

[BigLu]

I really like Adrians answer.

Word.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

#1: The business is changing. Fast. Every week.

#2: Post is now on set. Assistant Editors are a thing of the Past. Asking a 1st AC to handle Post issues is silly.

#3: A DIT that can handle data, QC, color-correct live-stream video per the Director's and DP's vision, provide sync colored dailies with proper metadata, and help out the rest of the camera dept. is worth $2000 a day. A year ago this took at least 24 hours and cost at least twice as much.

#4: There were, are, and always will be Douchebags in this world.

#5: If you can't deal with working with Douchebags you're in the wrong business.

#1 No Shit.
#2 No shit.
#3 WTF. That's insanity.
#4 No shit.
#5 Fortunately I live in Japan, you know... where showing attitude is showing weakness. You know, whats that word? Civility... that's right

 

[Nick Gardner]

I'm on your team Ivan, but half the people on this forum make at least a portion of their living being Dits. They are going to be pissed ;-)

Nick

 

[Ivan Kovax]

As for the Douche DITs I'm thinking about. They are amazing, they deliver and do a GREAT JOB. So they get called back because they know what they are doing and protect the footage, deliver a quality product and cover lots of peoples backs. Therefor they get to do more big jobs, adding to their feeling of elitist attitude on set because they keep working non stop.

It seems to me that nobody notices when the DIT does his job appropriately, because he has done his job appropriately. It is just noticed when he does it incorrectly. WHen data is lost, when settings were wrong, when something screws up. A DIT is human insurance, to the post pipeline. The production pays for your reliability, not your creativity. Locally (to Asia) I direct and DP. I get hired as DIT on major international productions that come through Tokyo. I was probably the first person in Tokyo to assume a title of DIT, even when people didn't know what that meant. I love the role of DIT, as it gives me a chance to do a good job for the client while building a bond with the team. The ACs often don't have that opportunity.

However, I am still shocked at the DIT rates... maybe I should be charging more to foreign crews

 

[Adrian Jebef]

#1 No Shit.
#2 No shit.
#3 WTF. That's insanity.
#4 No shit.
#5 Fortunately I live in Japan, you know... where showing attitude is showing weakness. You know, whats that word? Civility... that's right

You asked about "American DITs" did you not? Los Angeles is about as mainstream as you can get. What do you make when you DIT in Japan? 10,000 Yen?

BTW: Insanity circa 2013 is paying Company 3 $25,000 to provide three days worth of dailies.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

I'm on your team Ivan, but half the people on this forum make at least a portion of their living being Dits. They are going to be pissed ;-)

Nick

"Pissed" isn't the right word. Disheartened is. Usually anyone who has managed to carve out a career for themselves in this business quickly understands that complaining is not in their best interests. Especially coming from someone who happens to live and work in Japan.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

I'm on your team Ivan, but half the people on this forum make at least a portion of their living being Dits. They are going to be pissed ;-)

Nick

Fortunately people have been quite frank and honest here and nobody has been a douche as of yet. It is an honest question something that most production people I know of wonder about. And something I wondered about for the first time the other day. If people can't answer the question without getting their knickers in a knot and all insecure, then they probably need to re-evaluate themselves.

2,000/day is really far too much IMHO for such a functional on set role (unless all gear is included). A DIT's job on big sets is to be paranoid about image quality and data reliability, to ingest and transcode, and to act as human insurance.

Mind you, on smaller sets, I have sometimes not used DITs at all. I have shot on sets before where we did not have the luxury or budget to hire a DIT that task was split evenly between myself and my AC. You know what happened? Nothing. We still managed to finish the day fine with all our shots in tact, and because I know what I am doing around the camera everything was exposed properly, and because my AC is a focusing superstar everything was as sharp as a tack. The day didn't end in tears, despite the fact that we each had to do a little more work...

 

[Ivan Kovax]

You asked about "American DITs" did you not? Los Angeles is about as mainstream as you can get. What do you make when you DIT in Japan? 10,000 Yen?

BTW: Insanity circa 2013 is paying Company 3 $25,000 to provide three days worth of dailies.

Christ. $25,000 a day?? Yes I asked about american DITs, then your answer "the business" in the worldwide business. I assumed you meant worldwide, but I see that you meant Los Angeles, clearly being the only place on the planet that has a production industry

Mate, I wouldn't even get out of bed for 10,000 yen/day

Then again, to work as a DIT at $2,000/day for 20 days and have enough money for the whole year both sounds insane to me, yet a great deal. The reason why I am confused is because I know how easy the job actually is (despite the long hours). If you know the cameras, how to get the best image, how to troubleshoot, how to transcode, how to do a 1 light you have it 95% of the job covered.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

2,000/day is really far too much IMHO for such a functional on set role (unless all gear is included).

Though there are Unions and set pay scales I would recommend to anyone in any business to negotiate the best rate they can for the services they provide. I was simply making the point that a DIT who can provide complete Pre, Production, and Post services is worth double what you found "insane".

IMHO

 

[Ivan Kovax]

"Pissed" isn't the right word. Disheartened is. Usually anyone who has managed to carve out a career for themselves in this business quickly understands that complaining is not in their best interests. Especially coming from someone who happens to live and work in Japan.

Ah, then you misunderstand japanese culture... Complaining is an integral part of Japanese life.

I wasn't complaining about you guys, but in regards to one specific douche I encountered on set. But I see that this has touched a nerve with you on some level. Please don't be threatened or disenchanted or whathaveyou... Reduser is supposed to be a place where we can openly and honestly discuss any production related issues and trust me, your comments are greatly appreciated. THis is how we grow and develop.

Hell, consider it practice. If you can justify the cost to me, then you can probably justify it to anybody

 

[Daniel Stilling]

I agree with the need for civility on set, and in other aspects of life. Does anyone gain anything by being a douche? Only Karma...

 

[robert browning]

Ah, then you misunderstand japanese culture... Complaining is an integral part of Japanese life.

I wasn't complaining about you guys, but in regards to one specific douche I encountered on set. But I see that this has touched a nerve with you on some level. Please don't be threatened or disenchanted or whathaveyou... Reduser is supposed to be a place where we can openly and honestly discuss any production related issues and trust me, your comments are greatly appreciated. THis is how we grow and develop.

Hell, consider it practice. If you can justify the cost to me, then you can probably justify it to anybody

Well then you should change the title of your thread to an American DIT, not the plural. You generalized. I understand what you were getting at, though.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

Christ. $25,000 a day?? Yes I asked about american DITs, then your answer "the business" in the worldwide business. I assumed you meant worldwide, but I see that you meant Los Angeles, clearly being the only place on the planet that has a production industry

Mate, I wouldn't even get out of bed for 10,000 yen/day

Then again, to work as a DIT at $2,000/day for 20 days and have enough money for the whole year both sounds insane to me, yet a great deal. The reason why I am confused is because I know how easy the job actually is (despite the long hours). If you know the cameras, how to get the best image, how to troubleshoot, how to transcode, how to do a 1 light you have it 95% of the job covered.

Company 3 (a Post House here in LA) will charge you a good $5000+ per day for color-corrected sync-sound dailies. A Local 600 DIT makes about $650/10 hrs scale. Add proper gear like monitors, waveform, computers and that rate can easily double. Even at $1500/day + a DIT is a huge cost-effective solution. Even for productions that complain about DITs being "overpaid".

What do you get out of bed for? Japan isn't the cheapest place to call home.

The job isn't "easy". If it were, any Douchebag could do it...