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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet with already build in dragon sensor....?

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flean

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I could not find a straight answer in the forum. May be someone has the answer? I read a lot about the Dragon Sensor upgrade for owners of the Scarlet but what about someone who is not an owner of Scarlet and who prefers to wait for the next generation of Scarlet with the dragon sensor already build in. Is there a plan for this in the near future or will we all have to go thru the upgrade process (meaning the cost of a Scarlet package + the 9K upgrade)?
thanks
 
There will be a Dragon sensor Scarlet. They have said that there will but they did not say the price. However, don't expect the price to be the same as the current Scarlet. Expect it to be significantly more.
 
I wonder how that would work if you were to buy a Scarlet then the Scarlet Dragon.

Only problem is that on the online store, you need your Scarlet number to show up for approved upgrade.

Curious if anyone has tried to do this without taking delivery of the original Scarlet.
 
Louis Maddalena said:
There will be a Dragon sensor Scarlet. They have said that there will but they did not say the price. However, don't expect the price to be the same as the current Scarlet. Expect it to be significantly more.
Click to expand...

Where did they say this? I was wondering about this myself, since I assumed Scarlet Dragon would be a regular product but had not yet seen anyone from RED explicitly state that. It certainly would be interesting if they were not going to release it, though it seems quite unlikely since I'm sure they'd want the return on investment for their development of the product and a lesser scarlet vs epic is always useful for improving component yields for DSMC bodies and capturing a lower market segment.
 
Eric Santiago said:
I wonder how that would work if you were to buy a Scarlet then the Scarlet Dragon.

Only problem is that on the online store, you need your Scarlet number to show up for approved upgrade.

Curious if anyone has tried to do this without taking delivery of the original Scarlet.
Click to expand...

I doubt it would make sense to do that, if you even can, since you're most likely going to be able to buy a Scarlet Dragon body (assuming they will be made) at or before current scarlet buyers might come up for a scarlet dragon upgrade and for less money. It probably only makes sense if you need a Scarlet now and don't mind waiting a while and paying extra for an upgrade later. Also I think a lot of these questions may not yet be answered, but hopefully someone from RED will chime in to clarify.
 
I am curious where ANYONE heard that there would be a Dragon version of Scarlet..... Please reference. I may well be wrong but I do not think this will be the case.....

Dragon will require brand new ASICs and as we know the present Scarlet exists simply because many of the original batch of ASICs for the Epic did not pass the RED QC tests and so the current Scarlet was born out of those less than perfect chipsets.

I do not think that will be the case with the Dragon chipsets...

But of course I have been wrong many many times
 
i heard the only way to get a dragon in scarlet was if you already owned one, they would upgrade, but thought i read they wouldnt be selling them in store. only available as upgrade.
 
Domenic Barbero said:
i heard the only way to get a dragon in scarlet was if you already owned one, they would upgrade, but thought i read they wouldnt be selling them in store. only available as upgrade.
Click to expand...

Maybe. But it wouldn't surprise if they released a DRAGON "Scarlet" as well, that is purchasable directly off RED.com.

RED seems committed to servicing both Scarlet and Epic budgets.
 
I wouldnt put it past them either. I just havent read anything yet of plans to release a scarlet dragon.


Nick Morrison said:
Maybe. But it wouldn't surprise if they released a DRAGON "Scarlet" as well, that is purchasable directly off RED.com.

RED seems committed to servicing both Scarlet and Epic budgets.
Click to expand...
 
When they did the MX upgrade for the R1, they first upgraded everyone's camera who wanted it. Then they made it the standard sensor but raised the price of the new camera by the MX upgrade price.

So if they do offer Dragon as the standard sensor in the future, expect a higher price.
 
Guys, this thread has all the relevant information on Dragon for Epic.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97869-NAB13-Dragon-Sensor-Upgrade-Program-begins

Buy more importantly THIS ONE has all the info on Darong and Scarlet. Just click the RED NAME icon and read everything Jarred says:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97900-NAB13-Scarlet-Upgrade-Program

No price has yet been announced for a straight-up Dragon Scarlet from scratch. Nor date. I would guess it'll be around the price of an Epic X with MX sensor. That's purely a guess on my part and backed up by nothing in terms of statements from Red. Because again, all we know is the info in those two threads which, to be fair, is quite a lot of info.
 
Peter Majtan said:
A brand new Scarlet Dragon simply does not fit into this model IMHO...
Click to expand...

Why would that be the model? It always makes sense to have a lower end product with similar components so lower binned components don't have to be thrown out.

Seems like a pretty bad idea to waste all the R&D and amazing new technology going into Dragon by only serving the higher end market segment when they could use it to really mix things up in lower markets while also finding a home for silicon that doesnt meet Epic 6k specs. And MX is a nice sensor, but in this new world where every every S35 camera over $4k is super clean at ISO2000 and $3k cameras have internal RAW recording and 13 stops of DR, MX is visibly aging. And to those saying they shoot big amazing movies on MX so it must be good enough forever, yes they shot big amazing movies on F900/vipers 10 years ago but high DR and high ISO really change the way you work and light and make jobs easier and open up new ways of doing things better and faster and easier even if big budgets could have done it on a lesser camera with a lot more work...

So why then would RED keep its store mostly stocked with 2 year old cameras with 4 year old sensors? RED is all about innovation and moving forward, Dragon is that. I don't know if they will release a Scarlet Dragon product, but they probably should. And they will probably stop making MX sensors and the products that contain them when Dragon becomes the standard in the next year or so.

Frankly, I feel like it would be in my best interests if they didn't release a Scarlet Dragon in the store and just upgraded cameras. Scarlet Dragon would be a much rarer camera and would probably in most cases just become interchangeable with Epic Dragon since 98% of productions wouldn't know the difference between 6k and 5k, Scarlet dragon is not so frame rate limited, and 16stops is 16stops... But it seems pretty clear that it's in RED's and customer's best interest to release a Scarlet Dragon since it makes things more accessible for customers and it expands the customer base since it may blow away Sony's F5 in the same price range. Otherwise Sony will likely own that market and blackmagic will own the lower market.
 
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if they only sell two cameras in the store:

EPIC DRAGON
SCARLET DRAGON

Dragon is the future. The MX Sensor, with its 4 year-old sensor, is a hallmark of the past (all be it a storied one).
 
Agree. With Sony F5/F55 , Canon c500, The 4k Blackmagic for a 4k price camera ( a killing entry level price for a 4k) + other raw cams coming up, RED definitely needs an entry level cam with a Scarlet Dragon around 8k (i know the upgrade itself without body is 9,500 alone) and whose technology won't be obsolete in 4 years time so an operator/owner can have time to recoup its cost via his/her work and rentals may be. Otherwise, they'll loose a lot of their potential buyers/owners and these people will mostly use rentals or buy other cams. I wonder how many potential scarlet owners are out there and have decided to hold back before buying a Scarlet...It's really about survival in a highly competitive market with a rapid evolution of technology.
 
flean said:
Agree. With Sony F5/F55 , Canon c500, The 4k Blackmagic for a 4k price camera ( a killing entry level price for a 4k) + other raw cams coming up, RED definitely needs an entry level cam with a Scarlet Dragon around 8k (i know the upgrade itself without body is 9,500 alone) and whose technology won't be obsolete in 4 years time so an operator/owner can have time to recoup its cost via his/her work and rentals may be. Otherwise, they'll loose a lot of their potential buyers/owners and these people will mostly use rentals or buy other cams. I wonder how many potential scarlet owners are out there and have decided to hold back before buying a Scarlet...It's really about survival in a highly competitive market with a rapid evolution of technology.
Click to expand...

You think RED should release their 16+ stop compressed 5k raw recording camera for $8k when Sony's 14 stop competing offering with 4k raw recording costs $20k?

Blackmagic certainly has some interesting offerings, but their $4k 4k camera has only 12 stops and likely poor sensitivity, so it barely competes with the specs of RED's Scarlet MX, except for the global shutter....

So maybe they should keep the Scarlet MX or Epic MX as a lower end offering, but they should be able to do that for quite some time as battletested products with all the trade-ins coming in.
 
The 2K Black Magic Cinema Camera makes some good images. I wouldn't discount the 4K version before trying it. I'd still rather have my Scarlet, but I would rather use a 4K BMCC than a C500 (I just can't stand Canon's software. So many dumb decisions at every turn of their menus.)

Rather than bicker and argue about the future, let me just point out that there came a point where the M sensor got universally replaced by the MX sensor, and that there was a stretch of time where the Red One could still be bought new, but only as MX, despite the Epic being an available and better all-around camera for about 2 times the cost.

In My Humble Opinion, it would be foolish to state definitively that the Scarlet will never be offered, new, with a Dragon sensor. However, we're probably about a year to 2 years out from Dragon completely unilaterally replacing the MX sensor, so I wouldn't hold off on a purchase of a Scarlet-X now hoping that you'll be able to buy a Scarlet Dragon for the same price, new, in 3 months. It just doesn't seem likely.

Let me also point out just 2 more things: first, I'm proven wrong on these forums at least once a month (and gladly eat my humble-pie every time; it's the best way for me to learn). And second: Red continually surprises me, in a good way, with new features and announcements. Right now they are the only company that I ENJOY tracking the progress of; the sheer act of 'paying attention' to the Red Names is a source of joy and inspiration. If they were to announce a purchasable Scarlet Dragon tomorrow, it would surprise me, but not shock-and-horrify me.
 
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