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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ProLine T2000 steadicam group buy - Part II

Tom Wills posted in the other group buy threat a great summary of what iso-elastic means and how different arms designs behave under different payloads:

Tom Wills said:
I know this was posted a bit ago, but since I like discussing technical things, I figure I'd clarify some things about "Iso-elasticity". Your quote is accurate, but it is a bit of a simplification.

First of all, yes, Iso-elastic is a marketing term created by Tiffen (Cinema Products, actually, but Steadicam nonetheless), and trademarked. So, no other manufacturer can use it to describe their rigs (which is why Glidecam refers to their arms as "Dyna-Elastic"... yeah...)

What Iso-elasticity describes is an arm that requires little force to boom. Some Steadicam arms, like the tried-and-true 3A (the design which the ProLine is based off of), required quite a bit of force to boom up or down significantly. The amount of force required went up as the arm was adjusted for lighter loads, and went down as the arm was adjusted for higher loads. For this reason, the 3A was offered with different set bis of springs, which allowed you to have a spring set that would cover the cameras you needed to fly, while keeping the rig towards the top of the springs' weight range.

Newer arms are generally designed with more high-tech materials and physics, and require less force to boom up and down, but the details of how arms will perform, and what kind of force will be required to boom, depends on the geometry of the arm, the metals used in the springs, and the mechanics of how everything is put together. Some arm designs, like the one used by Liang and several other Chinese manufacturers, will be iso-elastic only in the bottom third or so of their weight range, and get progressively harder to boom up and down as they take more weight. The ProLine's design should be the opposite - less force to boom as the sled gets heavier. In comparison, all of the lower-end Steadicam arms at the moment have little change in the boom force required through their entire weight range (probably just a few ounces difference, and no more than a couple pounds total). Steadicam's current higher-end arms are tunable for the level of force required to boom, and that can be anywhere from ounces to several pounds.

All of this is pretty abstract though, and the thing to remember is that there are many operators today who still fly 3A arms (and even older arms sometimes!), and get beautiful shots with them. The force required to boom the rig should make absolutely no difference in the stability the shot. Sure, it's a bit easier for the op to boom with an arm that requires less force, and possibly you can finesse the rig a bit more, but the difference should not be significant.

A quick tip for working with an arm that has the kind of boom forces that the ProLine has: Set the arm so it floats a little low. Don't be afraid to carry a tiny bit of weight. It may help you avoid seeing footsteps in the shot a bit more. Also, if you know you're going to have to boom down significantly during a shot, turn the arm down a bit, and hold it up for the higher portion of the shot. It's easier, and more intuitive to hold the rig up a bit, than push it down.
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haha everything above is very correct, I have been saying not to pay so much attention on this term as this is just a trademark term and doesnt stand 100% of the actual behaviour, nor means that its better or worst. People should pay more attention to quality build and materials used, stated from the manufacturer and on the chinese arms some of them are pretty obvious that lack one way or another. The 3a design is a rock proof design that has been around for decades and it works very well and sweet.
I also said that all this data of elasticity curve some people require, is a data that means nothing in the real world, and changes from material to material, geometry , etc, so bottom line,
get a good solid designed arm, made with cnc precision,using good materials and hardware,and thats all you can control at this price range and get a decent rig. Eventually growing in this business your hands on experience will make you more mature in whats working better for you, and learn all the pros and cons away of the theory and with facts based on your senses, confort, and functionality. Tom has explored all this from day one the hard way. He knows what he is talking about.Dont fall for TERMS, they are just terms that arent necesarilly good, in fact they can be quite the opposite for some.
regards
 
roryhinds said:
Could you please clarify this, from what I see its a switch that can easily be switched on or off either intentionally or un-intentionally.
Its position under the sled so from what I can tell could easily be knocked.

If the switch does get hit, will the power stop on the 12V stream and go to the 24v stream? i.e you loose power to the camera?
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I wrote Luciano again quoting your question:

I think the question was now rather if there is an on/off switch, which you could accidentally turn, for all the connectors. If I understood Rory correctly, he wanted to know if he could accidentally turn off the camera / accessories.
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Luciano's answer:

ah ok David now I understand. It can happen, but the switch is covered by the battery mount is really hard to hit it. We were thinking to take off the switch and just use cables, because switches are more or less useless and there just for cosmetic reasons.

That is another change we can make for the red user edition.
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ok Lucianos suggestion is not really ideal, there are plenty of secure lock military type switches on the market, some have a protection spring cover, some have a pull and switch spring action, and many others to use. they are not expensive either. That is the correct approach. I guess these days its very unlikelly for a 24 vdc film camera, but if its there doesnt heart..you never know what future brings..
regards
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
ok Lucianos suggestion is not really ideal, there are plenty of secure lock military type switches on the market, some have a protection spring cover, some have a pull and switch spring action, and many others to use. they are not expensive either. That is the correct approach. I guess these days its very unlikelly for a 24 vdc film camera, but if its there doesnt heart..you never know what future brings..
regards
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I forwarded your suggestion to Luciano. I think a secured switch would be the way to go.
 
Tyler Bourns said:
What time is the deadline tomorrow?
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Will ask if it's possible to delay it for a few days, since some people contacted me that they can't make the order before April 1st or 2nd.

But I guess the deadline is midnight PDT.
 
I have taken part in 6 or 7 group buys since 2008 but none as well orchestrated as this. We have a great opportunity here. Let's make it happen.
Once again, thanks David. Well done.
 
Has anyone dug up other Proline footage besides what was taken on that test day? Especially anything shot with a load that didn't max the system out.
 
David Kellermann said:
I'll ask Luciano to upload some footage.
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Luciano can't post footage right now, but hopefully we get some in the next days.

The deadline is delayed to April 2nd, since many can't order before April.

Nothing that I can share now, David. My shoot's with the T2000 need to be aired first and I need the owners rights so that I can post the other operators materials. Let me check with some of our clients to see what can I get.
We have some more buyers hopefully we will hit the mark!!
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Thats great news about the time flexibility. I'm on the road and its a little nuts right now.

It would be nice to have a running counter at the top of this post-header-column indicating the total number of order confirmations!
 
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