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Video Waveform on Epic Monitor?

Daniel Soderberg

Daniel Soderberg

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Is there a way to get a video waveform on the Epic monitor (5" touch) similar to this?
 

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Maybe a Red Team member can chime in and say if it's in the plan to add this at some point? I think everyone could really benefit from it.
 
Since this would only be meaningful when looking at some output LUT, why not use one of the many 3rd party monitors that cam provide a waveform?
 
So you're suggesting I purchase a second onboard monitor just to see this waveform..? Only half the time I have the luxury of a large directors monitor on my shoots with this type of waveform and adding a second onboard monitor to a setup like a handheld rig would be ridiculous...

It's not my expertise, but wouldn't it be fairly simple to add a very commonly used waveform (on most pro monitors out there) as a feature to the Red monitor?

D Fuller said:
Since this would only be meaningful when looking at some output LUT, why not use one of the many 3rd party monitors that cam provide a waveform?
Click to expand...
 
No offense meant. I was just suggesting a way to get what you want without waiting for Red's development cycle. If it seems ridiculous to you, then don't do it.
 
No offense taken, and thanks for the suggestion and I have used this type of waveform on 17" Director's monitors many times, but in many set ups (like handheld) it's not possible, feasible, or time permitting to look at the waveform on a separate monitor.

D Fuller said:
No offense meant. I was just suggesting a way to get what you want without waiting for Red's development cycle. If it seems ridiculous to you, then don't do it.
Click to expand...
 
...Any chance this will be added in a future firmware update???
 
Didn't we have a waveform of some sort on the R1 if I remember right... Along the bottom of the monitor on one of the builds Pre stop lights I think.
It wasn't a exact waveform like we know it but I seem to remember some green level indicator you could switch to that was sort of like a waveform.
 
I am always wondering over to the Panasonic 17" on set to double check my exposure.... Can't beat a exposure percentage waveform (or whatever you call it)...
 
Red uses several more accurate tools for judging exposure on the raw sensor.

The histogram (if you are familiar with dslrs then this should be no problem)
the exposure tool (gives you a readout of how every zone of the image is exposed, like a color version of Ansel Adams zone system)
stoplights (this tells you when you are clipping raw data)
the noise goal posts (tells you about how much noise is in the shadows and the highlights)
IRE zebra stripes, (user set able to tell you how many ire something like skin tones or highlights are at.

This is all of course on the raw sensor data and not just the Sdi output which is not representative of what you have captured.

second, the touchscreen is a viewfinder not a "monitor", I don't know of an Alexa, f35, or dslr, that has a waveform in the viewfinder, but as has been stated here, many actaul monitors do have that built in feature.

Now I just named five better ways to gauge exposure on epic than a waveform monitor, which does not really make sense on a raw camera.

My suggestion, if you want to use the system, take some time to learn how to use it to get the best images out of it, with the exposure tools specifically created for the camera.

It has its own specific tools which will save you more than a waveform monitor.

David
 
A waveform will monitor a video signal, such as that coming out of the video tap. It's not a representation of the RAW image being recorded. In other words, not a reliable way to judge exposure on a camera that records RAW. Wanting this is similar to pulling out your lightmeter and then wondering why the image recorded doesn't correlate.

It's not a video camera, it's not a film camera. There are plenty of tutorials and posts from Jim, Graeme et al to help you get actually accurate exposure info with Red's in-built tools. Otherwise, read some posts from stills guys who've been shooting digital RAW for years. So many experienced DP's simply haven't caught up yet and want to fall back on the tools they've "always" used. Bad idea.
 
Alexey Milokost said:
Guys, I do know about RAW and exposure tools! I simply want to know why even pointing camera at the sun, the waveform on Tvlogic clips at 80 IRE, that's it!
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to ask TV logic? Because the waveform in RESOLVE or FCP X or PREMIERE might actually display that correctly?
Maybe just double check that you are sending out the FULL range of data on the SDI and you are not somehow limiting the range.

I don't know that monitor but there are many variables. Does it read correctly on "other" cameras?


David
 
Alexey Milokost said:
I know all these tools, I just worked with a DP who got used to double check with waveform, and we noticed that signal doesn't go higher than 80 IRE or so. So, if anyone knows why is that, please share.
Click to expand...

What you are seeing is camera behavior, depending on what camera settings you are using (i.e. ISO 800). The camera exposure tools that are tied directly to what the sensor is seeing (aka raw) are the goal posts and the individual RGB channel clip warning (stoplights).

Video/preview output, histogram, zebras and offboard waveform monitor are seeing an image created after camera/metadata settings are applied. With camera set to 800 ISO, you won't see onboard histogram touch the right goalpost even when clipping, and an outboard waveform won't see 100IRE in the output video image.
 
Daniel Soderberg said:
So you're suggesting I purchase a second onboard monitor just to see this waveform..? Only half the time I have the luxury of a large directors monitor on my shoots with this type of waveform and adding a second onboard monitor to a setup like a handheld rig would be ridiculous...

It's not my expertise, but wouldn't it be fairly simple to add a very commonly used waveform (on most pro monitors out there) as a feature to the Red monitor?
Click to expand...

Nobody is forcing you to use the Red 5" Touch along with an SDI Monitor + Side Handle.
 
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