why not saying the true delivery date?

[Guillaume Tremblay]

Hello, I was wondering why RED talk about a new product and make it possible to buy much later.

They said the Dragon would be available september last year, it was not the case.

Please at NAB 2013, be clear and say what you will be really able to do, so our expectations are not deceived.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Continuos Technological advancements that RED chooses ot take advantage of and deliver the best product to date, unfortunately but also very FORTUNATELY Jim is IMHO a bit like me, a PERFECTIONIST, so at any time a product is about to be released a new Technological advancement comes along and BAAMMM, Jim wants IT to be part of the new release, and a delay comes in... Our curse and best benefit of all.

Other manufacturers choose to release asap what ever they have, hide a new technological advancement and then get you for an other round 6 months later...

 

[Guillaume Tremblay]

Ok, but they should say then...Dragon sensor 6k...working on it! Not september 2012 when we're march now and nothing more than two frame grab on the forum.

 

[Justin Chin]

Right now this is the way of the world for RED as well as other tech companies (m-logic, cal-digit etc.). No way to really avoid it. I for one would rather hear of what is being planned than not get any news at all. Apple anyone? At least we have some idea of what products might likely appear in the future and from there customers can decide what that information / schedule means to them. Obviously, nothing is set in stone, but it's good to get a peek once in a while.

 

[Phil Holland]

They said the Dragon would be available september last year, it was not the case.

I think a bit has changed regarding the original inception of Dragon. It transformed from a proposed sensor upgrade into a much bigger beast requiring new boards. This is both a curse and a blessing.

Curse:
- We didn't get Dragon in September.

Blessing:
- We get a better Dragon when it's released.

Advantages:
- Red has now seen what the competition is up to in terms of 4K digital cinema cameras. This gives them the upper hand by releasing something more impressive than originally anticipated. Also they will be releasing a camera that we'll be using for years to come. Not months to come.

Ok, but they should say then...Dragon sensor 6k...working on it! Not september 2012 when we're march now and nothing more than two frame grab on the forum.

I think Red have said "working on it" via that thread. However, I'd bet the family pig that they would be not only announcing some details about Dragon at NAB, but likely also showing us images as well as what they have planned in terms of release dates.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

The best lesson to take away from this is NOT to make hard and fast business decisions about upcoming RED products UNTIL they are actually released. You can look at it like a little advance notice is fun and may give a helpful glimpse into features and capabilities, but it really is best not to take projected shipping dates too literally.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Red isn't the only camera missing there time tables, and they won't be the last. Its no big deal, just have fun with Epics/Scarlets until the new model is out. At least you can upgrade and your camera bodies aren't out dated...Its really not that bad

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Hello, I was wondering why RED talk about a new product and make it possible to buy much later.

They said the Dragon would be available september last year, it was not the case.

Please at NAB 2013, be clear and say what you will be really able to do, so our expectations are not deceived.

because they are always late..trying to save some time

 

[William Albertini]

Here we go again...

 

[Elsie N]

Ok, but they should say then...Dragon sensor 6k...working on it! Not september 2012 when we're march now and nothing more than two frame grab on the forum.

Everyone seems to want to tell RED how to run their business in a way that suits them. The reason so many on here do not complain is because we know that the wait is worth it and that RED is working hard. Doing business with RED is a new way of doing business... that is, trusting the company to do what it deems best for it's customers balanced by what is best to keep the company viable.

And by the way... not getting updates is probably because of the carpers on Reduser who would complain for the dumbest of reasons every time RED tried to keep us in the loop of what was going on behind closed doors. Not only that, competitors used those bits of information to try and put out a similar solution in an attempt to compete.

We all want it now and want information on demand. But to paraphrase Mick Jagger or whomever wrote the song, "You don't always get what you want... but you just might get what you need."

 

[Guillaume Tremblay]

I'm not asking for anything, I suggest they don't come out with date anymore, it's not helping them.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I don't know how "new" this business model is. I wait for lots of things. Starcraft 2 took TEN YEARS! BMC, still don't have one LOL

 

[Marc Wielage]

Red isn't the only camera missing there time tables, and they won't be the last.

I think one can draw a parallel to computer companies announcing future releases. Red is unusual in that they at least let their customers peek behind the curtain. Most major technology companies -- in particular, Apple -- specifically say we never comment on future products. Sony is equally closed most of the time, rarely talking about prototypes except at NAB and SMPTE shows.

You can take that either way, but I get that Jim and Jared are proud of what they do and are enthusiastic enough to want to trumpet their works in progress. The risk is running into The Osborne Effect, where a future product announcement made too early affects sales of existing products. That doesn't happen too much these days.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ok, but they should say then...Dragon sensor 6k...working on it! Not september 2012 when we're march now and nothing more than two frame grab on the forum.

You are completely missing the point and what I wrote...

When a prospected release date is given, it is given because there is an honest assessment that such product would be ready by such date... If it isn't a new date is given.

Riding the bleeding edge has it's advantages and disadvantages, I personally love riding it, and can deal no problem with miss release dates, especially since all have been because of the final release of a much better product at the end.


How RED is now doing and will continue to do their business, well, that is simply just their business, and I am sure what ever decision they make they will surely think of benefits and consequences of their business model.

Then as Jim says, "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." ...

 

[Curran Giddens]

When a prospected release date is given, it is given because there is an honest assessment that such product would be ready by such date... If it isn't a new date is given.

A new date is not always given...

I'm not asking for anything, I suggest they don't come out with date anymore, it's not helping them.

I prefer to have the information even if it doesn't always end up being accurate. Red has been a lot better lately about meeting their product release dates.

 

[Robert Hart]

Way back in 1961 or thereabouts, when automotive manufacturers were then extravagently releasing significantly different new models every two years or so, GMH in Australia, were building a new engine to replace a Buick designed motor which had its genesis some ten years before WW2. It apparently was to go into what was then an excitely anticipated new car, the EJ. Their development timetable was rumoured to have slipped on the new motor due to bearing problems. It did not appear in the new release but in a mid-term model the EH, later in 1964.

So deferred releases are nothing new, except for each new generation for whom it becomes a novel experience. The EJ was a good car on the old motor. The EH which was based on the same platform with two power choices for motors was somewhat of a legend at the time and are now highly sought after.

So the moral to the story is, enjoy the anticipation. Many things are the more savoured and appreciated for the wait.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

A new date is not always given...

It will be given... When they are ready to give it...

 

[Jason Comparetto]

I would like to say that RED has an amazing track record of releasing products that people say "Man, that was worth the wait". So yes, we'll be waiting for that upgrade, but once it comes it will probably make up for any lost time up till them.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Whenever something new, which has never been made before, is under development, it's difficult to make any reliable time estimations. Especially so, as it is like walking in open snow fields without any previous tracks. Once the engineers predict how long the process will take, multiply this by a factor of 2 or 3 and you'll get a rough idea of delivery. Eventually, as everybody says here, when Dragon is availble, the track record of RED suggests it will be worth of the wait.

Being a RED customer includes a free training program that teaches one to become patient.

 

[mark haflich]

Whenever something new, which has never been made before, is under development, it's difficult to make any reliable time estimations. Especially so, as it is like walking in open snow fields without any previous tracks. Once the engineers predict how long the process will take, multiply this by a factor of 2 or 3 and you'll get a rough idea of delivery. Eventually, as everybody says here, when Dragon is availble, the track record of RED suggests it will be worth of the wait.

Being a RED customer includes a free training program that teaches one to become patient.

Elsie N can attest to the fact that I am a successful graduate of that training program.

I fully understand the need Red has to get a lot of free publicity at trade shows. To announce new products. The young press flocks to Ted who can say millions of words all in praise of Red and brush aside any specifics. You will have to ask engineering. Sorry they are not available for questions. The press won't call him out least they won't get an opportunity to interview him again. Its a great strategy. Lots of free publicity announcing future break throughs no matter how far off. Its all good,

However, it does tend to piss some customers off but that's the customers' own fault. Its like Tommorowland at Disneyland. The problem is that unlike Tommorowland exhibits they have to give dates although they know they are probably meaningless in order to generate the press coverage.

We know better. Some good things will happen but we really don't know when. Somethings won't happen. When they give a date, just say sure and never be negative about it and be understanding. They need to give the press something. They know you are smarter than that and won't foolishly relie on any announcement date.