Pierre Devereux
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Hi,
We are in pre-production for a children's show for HD output, 1080P. We currently have a Panasonic AF101 shooting 1080, with external recorder, which can achieve approximately 75% of the shots we would like. However we think a RED can facilitate some of the moving shots we would otherwise find very difficult, in the context of this project.
The show involves small aliens, approximately 20cm tall (approx. 1:6 scale compared to humans), with action taking place on spaceships and on earth. We are using real puppets for the characters - actual size, i.e. 20cm tall, using chroma keying rods for their motor movements, e.g. walking, arm moves, and then adding animation details, e.g. speaking mouths, facial expressions, finger movements, in post.
We then also have a number of miniature sets and miniature ships, of varying scales. Depending on the shot, we will either shoot the characters against blue screen and composite in, or actually puppeteer them in the set.
Specifically then, the reasons we are considering a RED:
1. Simulate camera motion in post -
A large proportion of shots involves several of the characters being composited into a set / scene. Because we can only puppeteer / make one character move at a time, primarily using chroma keying rods attached to the characters, we’d have to make multiple passes, one for each character to make the final composition. If we don’t want any camera motion in the shot, this is no problem, we just use the standard 1080P camera in a fixed position and capture the several takes. However if we want any pans or zooms, because the camera isn’t motorized, we can’t replicate the movement exactly, and hence we can’t make the composition. So the 4k would allow us to generate the moving 1080 image from within the stationery 4k space. This movement is important to us simply because we want to be able to maximize the cinematic value of the show.
2. Easier to handle motion in post than camera side -
Even though we can execute some of the shots with the AF101, because the characters are approximately 1:6 scale any unevenness in camera motion gets exaggerated. So if we wanted to zoom, pan or rack between two characters it would seem, we’re thinking, easier to add that motion in post (maybe racking camera side). One drawback is perhaps the loss of parallax, but we’d mix it up where we can with actual dolly moves / pans.
3. Framing / Macro shots -
4k images will give us framing options in the aesthetic of shots, hopefully reducing re-shoot time. We also have a number of macro shots planned. We could get very good images with the right lens on the AF101, but I’m thinking the 4k images gives us greater control with the DOF, in that we have a margin to move physically away from the talent, especially as a lot of shots are relatively low light, and we’re struggling with too shallow a DOF. Is the Red Scarlet’s shallow DOF a problem here,
4. Time consideration -
This is initially being pitched as a 13 episode project, so we’re looking for longer term time efficiency to get the shots we’re after. Simply put, we’re thinking the degree of options / control of framing the shots in post is a quicker method that capturing the exact shots initially in 1080P, and then having no room to maneuver.
Drawbacks:
1. Shallow Depth of Field - although there are several shots where we want a shallow DOF, there are many more where we need it deeper, but is made more complicated but deliberate low light for mood / contrast.
Below is a basic plan layout of the principal set, the bridge. The set is approx. 80 x 100cm. With lighting, it's relatively low IRE overall, with High lumen LED lighting on the characters, low lighting on side walls, and deliberate shadows in the corners / back wall.
Questions are:
1.1 Can we achieve a 60cm or greater DOF in this low light miniature set, to get all the characters in focus?
1.2 Can we achieve a 20cm or less DOF in this set? So as to get singular characters in focus and rack between them?
1.3 Which len(s)?
2. No high fps - We usually have the characters' final running speed at 25% recorded - we shoot at 50 fps (UK broadcast), so we achieve 50% speed no problem, and then have to add artificial frames again in After Effects to get another 50%. This is also the case with the model spaceships. Would have been nice to have it higher, as the added frames aren't always perfect.
3. Learning time
4. Delay in shooting (a few weeks)
5. Storage space
6. Cost - we can employ someone for a year instead!
So, the key questions are:
1. Is a RED suitable for what we're asking for here?
2. Is there a better solution?
3. If we did opt for the RED, what are the best lens for the shots we require – the macro shots, DOF needs, general purpose shooting lens? We would clearly prefer stills lens from a costings perspective. Other considerations is that it's for HD TV output (not cinema but neither SD); that we're shooting a lot of miniatures; that we would like to focus rack between miniatures.
4. What other accessories would help us to maximise the RED's use in this project?
Any advice would be appreciated,
Pierre Devereux
We are in pre-production for a children's show for HD output, 1080P. We currently have a Panasonic AF101 shooting 1080, with external recorder, which can achieve approximately 75% of the shots we would like. However we think a RED can facilitate some of the moving shots we would otherwise find very difficult, in the context of this project.
The show involves small aliens, approximately 20cm tall (approx. 1:6 scale compared to humans), with action taking place on spaceships and on earth. We are using real puppets for the characters - actual size, i.e. 20cm tall, using chroma keying rods for their motor movements, e.g. walking, arm moves, and then adding animation details, e.g. speaking mouths, facial expressions, finger movements, in post.
We then also have a number of miniature sets and miniature ships, of varying scales. Depending on the shot, we will either shoot the characters against blue screen and composite in, or actually puppeteer them in the set.
Specifically then, the reasons we are considering a RED:
1. Simulate camera motion in post -
A large proportion of shots involves several of the characters being composited into a set / scene. Because we can only puppeteer / make one character move at a time, primarily using chroma keying rods attached to the characters, we’d have to make multiple passes, one for each character to make the final composition. If we don’t want any camera motion in the shot, this is no problem, we just use the standard 1080P camera in a fixed position and capture the several takes. However if we want any pans or zooms, because the camera isn’t motorized, we can’t replicate the movement exactly, and hence we can’t make the composition. So the 4k would allow us to generate the moving 1080 image from within the stationery 4k space. This movement is important to us simply because we want to be able to maximize the cinematic value of the show.
2. Easier to handle motion in post than camera side -
Even though we can execute some of the shots with the AF101, because the characters are approximately 1:6 scale any unevenness in camera motion gets exaggerated. So if we wanted to zoom, pan or rack between two characters it would seem, we’re thinking, easier to add that motion in post (maybe racking camera side). One drawback is perhaps the loss of parallax, but we’d mix it up where we can with actual dolly moves / pans.
3. Framing / Macro shots -
4k images will give us framing options in the aesthetic of shots, hopefully reducing re-shoot time. We also have a number of macro shots planned. We could get very good images with the right lens on the AF101, but I’m thinking the 4k images gives us greater control with the DOF, in that we have a margin to move physically away from the talent, especially as a lot of shots are relatively low light, and we’re struggling with too shallow a DOF. Is the Red Scarlet’s shallow DOF a problem here,
4. Time consideration -
This is initially being pitched as a 13 episode project, so we’re looking for longer term time efficiency to get the shots we’re after. Simply put, we’re thinking the degree of options / control of framing the shots in post is a quicker method that capturing the exact shots initially in 1080P, and then having no room to maneuver.
Drawbacks:
1. Shallow Depth of Field - although there are several shots where we want a shallow DOF, there are many more where we need it deeper, but is made more complicated but deliberate low light for mood / contrast.
Below is a basic plan layout of the principal set, the bridge. The set is approx. 80 x 100cm. With lighting, it's relatively low IRE overall, with High lumen LED lighting on the characters, low lighting on side walls, and deliberate shadows in the corners / back wall.
Questions are:
1.1 Can we achieve a 60cm or greater DOF in this low light miniature set, to get all the characters in focus?
1.2 Can we achieve a 20cm or less DOF in this set? So as to get singular characters in focus and rack between them?
1.3 Which len(s)?
2. No high fps - We usually have the characters' final running speed at 25% recorded - we shoot at 50 fps (UK broadcast), so we achieve 50% speed no problem, and then have to add artificial frames again in After Effects to get another 50%. This is also the case with the model spaceships. Would have been nice to have it higher, as the added frames aren't always perfect.
3. Learning time
4. Delay in shooting (a few weeks)
5. Storage space
6. Cost - we can employ someone for a year instead!
So, the key questions are:
1. Is a RED suitable for what we're asking for here?
2. Is there a better solution?
3. If we did opt for the RED, what are the best lens for the shots we require – the macro shots, DOF needs, general purpose shooting lens? We would clearly prefer stills lens from a costings perspective. Other considerations is that it's for HD TV output (not cinema but neither SD); that we're shooting a lot of miniatures; that we would like to focus rack between miniatures.
4. What other accessories would help us to maximise the RED's use in this project?
Any advice would be appreciated,
Pierre Devereux
, After our initial tests, it seems that most of our work is going to be green screen compositions. As a result, we will only really be interested in depth of field for the exterior shots (and there wont be many of those). We would prefer our characters to be all in focus, and the sets probably as well (as the sets are scaled to the characters, and are not very big themselves - in their "real-world").