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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Sue Sony - Sony replies on their web site

Paul Hudson said:
The Japanese have never been great creators of technology but they have been at copying existing technology
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NHK

70's - HD - "Hi-Vision"
2003 - 8K - "Super Hi-Vision" (camera + broadcast)
NHK + Sharp - first 8K LCD
NHK + Panasonic - first 8K Plasma

Sony

U-Matic
Walkman
Betacam
HDVS HD system
CD Player
MiniDisc
Discman
CCD HD camera (HDC 500)
DV camera (VX1000)
HDCAM, HD camcorder (HDW-700)
Digital 24p cine camera (F900)
Consumer HD camera (FX1)
Full Frame video camera (NEX-VG900)
SLT stills camera

Nikon

DSLR

JVC

VHS
Boombox
Compact handheld UHD camera (GY-HMQ10U)

Toshiba

Flash memory

Sharp

First commercial LCDTV
First camera mobile phone
First 8K Display

Fujitsu

First color plasma display

Fujifilm

3D digital pocket camera (FinePix Real 3D W1)

Panasonic/Matsushita

Technics SL-1200 DJ turntable

Casio

Electronic calculator

Seiko

Quartz wristwatch


...




One patent application seems to lead to these:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Putting their eggs in the 4K (UHD) basket is hardly risk free, pro and consumer spaces....
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I would flip that around to consumer and pro spaces, in that order. Nothing being proposed for the pro space would exist if it weren't for the infinitely larger and more significant consumer space. The entire reason for UHD is the consumer market. Pros just get to use the result of that.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Now Autodesk is a far bigger company than RED, In some ways even bigger than Sony but I would not be shocked if Sony does pull back their new cameras.
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Autodesk is currently valued at $3.2 billion; Sony is currently valued at $162 billion, making Autodesk a pipsqueak by comparison. Red is privately owned, so your guess is as good as mine.

Hrvoje Simic said:
Sony... U-Matic... Betacam...
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Small correction: Ampex was the company that invented Helical scan analog video recording, not Sony; Ampex relegated it to a closet, not seeing a market in it. Sony and Ampex traded some patents in the early 1960s, which allowed Sony to develop 1" and 1/2" open reel videotape, and eventually 3/4" U-Matic. Ampex was (understandably) flummoxed when Sony's 1" machines took over the professional world and 3/4" took over the industrial video business. Ampex faded quickly during the 1980s and early 1990s, essentially the victim of a technology they didn't think was important until it was too late, and also failing to be able to react fast enough to falling prices in the world of broadcast video.

The whole tortured history is captured in John Buck's excellent eBook Timeline: A History of Editing, which goes into extraordinary detail about how all these video formats began and then were eventually made obsolete. It's a sobering look at how one format can reign supreme for 5-10 years, then topple over when superior technology kills it over time.

It would be interesting to be able to jump ahead 10 years and see who ultimately wins the technological battle between Red, Sony, Arri, Canon, and the others. Judging by past history, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some completely different names that ultimately wind up as the kings of the hill, maybe even from companies that don't exist today. Things change fast.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
I do respect all of your comments, although I feel some of you are speaking about something that you unfortunately may not know much about. RED is protecting themselves and their technology. If another person figured out how your invented technology works and uses it without permission, wouldn't you be a little upset too, no matter how big that person is?

I believe RED is doing the right thing, and I also hope this case ends more quickly than it started.
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Wise words. And we are witnesses of all the hard work done by these boys. To not be with them now it is a shame. Enough said.
 
Elsie N said:
Paul Harb said:
Doesnt the Alexa get used in a ton of big feature films? Yes, yes it does...how many oscar noms were shot on Red?
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Paul, curiosity has finally gotten the best of me and I have to ask... why do you often promote Alexa and even Sony IIRC some of your past posts, and at the same time you seem to be sticking it to RED, while your signature says you own 2 Epic Ms? Doesn't this go against your business model?
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Elsie, I thought the same when I read it. I even wonder myself about the quality of the whisky for sale nowadays in LA...

E :-)
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Panasonic:
DVX-100 bringing 24p to the video crowd.
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That was a nice cam, DVX...too bad for the offspring...


Marc Wielage said:
Small correction: Ampex was the company that invented Helical scan analog video recording, not Sony; Ampex relegated it to a closet, not seeing a market in it. Sony and Ampex traded some patents in the early 1960s, which allowed Sony to develop 1" and 1/2" open reel videotape, and eventually 3/4" U-Matic. Ampex was (understandably) flummoxed when Sony's 1" machines took over the professional world and 3/4" took over the industrial video business. Ampex faded quickly during the 1980s and early 1990s, essentially the victim of a technology they didn't think was important until it was too late, and also failing to be able to react fast enough to falling prices in the world of broadcast video.

The whole tortured history is captured in John Buck's excellent eBook Timeline: A History of Editing, which goes into extraordinary detail about how all these video formats began and then were eventually made obsolete. It's a sobering look at how one format can reign supreme for 5-10 years, then topple over when superior technology kills it over time.
Click to expand...

Actually, those weren't listed in relation to main principles of VTR invention, but as broadcasting technology solutions, but regardless...thank you for the clarification, just reading more about Ginsburg...
Also, thank you for the book recommendation as well, Marc. Much appreciated.

Marc Wielage said:
It would be interesting to be able to jump ahead 10 years and see who ultimately wins the technological battle between Red, Sony, Arri, Canon, and the others.
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Brush builder battles.


:)
 
Marc Wielage said:
Autodesk is currently valued at $3.2 billion; Sony is currently valued at $162 billion, making Autodesk a pipsqueak by comparison. Red is privately owned, so your guess is as good as mine.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you look at those numbers Sony is much, much bigger, but if you also consider that just about every Sony product is is designed using an Autdesk software, just as the screen you watch right now, and the sofa you sit in... With that in mind I think Autodesk is quite big.
 
Marc Wielage said:
It would be interesting to be able to jump ahead 10 years and see who ultimately wins the technological battle between Red, Sony, Arri, Canon, and the others.
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Marc,

I think we, the consumers, have already won!!!
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Actually- Nikon was first to put out DSLR video in their D90- Canon followed quickly with the 5D II
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Fair enough. How about some canon points for the XL-1 making a prosumer video camera with a lens mount? Although admittedly that was a bit of a gimmick. I've never seen an XL1 with anything except a stock lens on it. :P
 
Jack Cooper said:
I think we, the consumers, have already won!!!
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Not to be Mr. Cynical, but I think victories in technology are momentary and fleeting. What's state of the art today can turn into a $5000 relic on eBay in a few years. I'm positive the people who bought Sony F35's and F23's feel this way. Realistically, it's not that bad for users, because they can still make money and do business; who it really hurts is rental houses who invested in expensive pro hardware, only to have the price tumble a few years later. Think of the post houses who invested millions in tape-based HD hardware ten years ago; all of that stuff is worth pennies on the dollar today.

Having lots of choices for DPs and production people is usually a good thing, but the flaw I see is the preponderance of new RAW and compressed camera formats, which can be mind-bogglingly complicated. Ten years ago, there were maybe four or five formats; now, there must be 50. I'm guessing in another five years, there could be 100. Not every facility and every kind of editing program, color-correction program, or VFX program will be able to deal with these formats.

Björn Benckert said:
Yes, if you look at those numbers Sony is much, much bigger, but if you also consider that just about every Sony product is is designed using an Autdesk software, just as the screen you watch right now, and the sofa you sit in... With that in mind I think Autodesk is quite big.
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For AutoCAD, sure. I think 90% of Autodesk's income comes from that, and it's used by everyone from architects to manufacturers to industrial designers. Color-correction and effects (like Flame, Smoke, and Maya) are a relatively small part of their business. They have 7500 employees, and I bet relatively few of them are involved in the video/entertainment side.

While Sony is a $162-billion dollar company, think about a company like Toshiba, which is a trillion-dollar company. Sony dwarfs Autodesk, but there's quite a few Japanese companies that are even bigger.
 
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