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College Dropout

M

Michael Pyon

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Hey guys

So as some of you may know, I've been at NYU film school for two years and for the first time today I thought about dropping out. Our undergrad program is designed to help students have a solid short by the time they graduate in the hopes that it's seen widely at festivals. Last year, I made a short documentary that was picked up by Santa Barbara International Film Festival, Atlanta Film Festival, and the Annapolis Film Festival. So I feel that I've already accomplished what the program had intended and that staying any longer would be a waste of time and money.

I don't really want to drag on with this as whining, but I really need the advice from the professionals on this forum. Does a film degree alone really accomplish much in the industry today especially if you wanted to be a director? Do people care anymore about having a degree or is it all about what you are capable of doing to get a job done?

Hope this gets as much attention as my last post; this 19 year old kid could really use it.
 
How long is the film degree you're doing? Not offering this as professional industry advice or anything, but a degree is going to be worth a lot more than half a degree.
 
Well I'm in Undergrad, so it's a 4 year program. But I took a look into all the classes I can take for the rest of my degree, and they all deal with short film making or editing/camera classes which I already know myself. The only reason I would be staying is to have that degree, but if a degree doesn't really get you anything as opposed to being in more festivals or having credits in professional work, then it's pretty much useless.
 
Michael, though you may learn more practical experience at first if you drop out, staying at NYU and finishing has some serious upsides.

1) In the US, having a college degree (especially from as prestigious a school as NYU) will keep doors open for you the rest of your life. 5 years from now you may decide you want to work for a studio and not having this degree could become a serious hurdle.

2) College is also a growing experience. It's a time where you can grow and mature as a person (you are only 19), without having to face the harsh light of the real world yet. I would strongly urge you to savor this time, and think about the benefits of college that lay outside the academics (ie the social life, the spirit of learning, the excitement of new things).

3) You've already invested in 2 years at NYU. The degree is only worth something if you finish it. If you drop out now, then... technically speaking...the money you've already spent will be worth much much less.

Many successful have dropped out of college. But that's generally because they often jumped over many other hurdles afterwards.

Getting your degree is an important rite of passage. I strongly urge you to think hard about staying. You're young. You have time. Focus more on making your last 2 years at NYU work FOR YOU.
 
Nick is right on. Stay in school.

I left Emerson early to take a job in the industry and everything has worked out. However, there have been some interesting opportunities thrown my way, that even if I wanted to go after them, the lack of a degree would be a stumbling block.

If cost is a factor and you also feel you have got everything out of NYU, then perhaps consider finishing degree at another school. But don't be like me and do 2.5 years to only abandon it. Career wise, I'm fine but I have narrowed my opportunities if I ever look outside the production world, at least until I finish the degree.
 
A degree proves that you are a responsible person who can start and finish a long term (4 year) project. It won't guarantee success in any field. But it does help. You get to form relationships and connections while at school that will benefit you for the rest of your life. Use this opportunity to take classes in business, marketing, advertising, accounting etc... They will benefit you later in life. Everything you do is about selling and marketing yourself. Anyone can have technical ability, or be creative. But a creative and technical person with selling and marketing skills who understands how to run a business is hard to beat in any field/industry.
 
Mixed... I also thought at the end of 2nd year that knew enough, and did what you are thinking. Largely because I was taking out student loans and I could get an entry level job right away. Looking back, I wish I had stayed the course.

One of the main reasons, I did not know as much as I thought, and second you forge a lot of your friendships and collaborations with those who you go to school with. If you bail 2 years ahead you miss out on solidifying those bonds. Friends will help you a lot in your early career.

If feel that you've achieved the school's goal, then create a goal for yourself. Maybe create a short film that is part of something larger, a feature, or a TV series pilot. Use it to your advantage. Map out where you want to be in 3,5,10 years, and ask if your professors can help get you there. There is more to art of filmmaking in school. It's about learning the business. Once you have the craft, figure out the other side.

edit** I see share the same opinion of Danai, he is wise, listen to him ;)
 
If you have someone willing to subsidize your school, your parents or whomever, then definitely stay in school. Better to power through it now than to rack up a bunch of debt later. That is a huge advantage and a luxury that many students don't appreciate until they are have to do it for themselves. If you're already racking up a bunch of debt and have paying gigs lining up, that makes it a harder choice.

Congratulations on an early success at a young age. That is terrific. But also realize that you are at the very beginning of something. Right now you are the big fish in the small pond and that is probably a good ego boost, but when you leave, it will probably go the other way, and the road may not seem as clear, especially if you want to be a director - these jobs are very hard to acquire and no one is likely to hire you in that capacity right out of the gate - can't saying it won't happen, but the odds are not that great.

Being in film school allows you to continue working your director's chops. If you leave film school, think about where, besides the director spot, you can add value to other people's set. I find that kids coming out of film school rarely ask themselves that question and then are surprised when no one wants to hire someone relatively inexperienced into these positions, not when there are a surplus of good, experienced people to do this work.

I'm with Michael - set personal target and hit them. If you stay in school, aim higher than a short in a film festival, you have a great opportunity to do more than to meet the minimum expectations.

Lastly, what I always tell my aspiring young people - if you are really serious about taking on leadership roles - especially producer or director - then supplement your film school experience by studying leadership and finance. They don't teach that in film school. You will probably have to go outside the curriculum to get this. Study entrepreneurship and how money flows.

Your professors work in a system where they don't necessarily need these skills - at least, not at the level that a working director needs these skills - so they don't teach these bits.
 
I would like to thank you all for giving me such wonderful advice, it's been quite a sobering moment for me these past few days.
 
I graduated from UC Santa Cruz this past December. I didn't learn anything production wise that I didn't already know but in retrospect, it was the people I met that were worth so much more than the actual degree. The connections I have made are invaluable.

With that said, I've recently started a new entry level job shooting car commercials. I was interviewed alongside 15 other candidates and honestly, the things that I think made me stand out (besides personality/work ethic/blah blah) were 1) That I own a Red 2) That I'd use my Red to shoot for them 3) That I had a B.A.

You might not see the value in the film degree, I didn't either, but there are dumb, stupid people out there that see it as an instant disqualifier. From my perspective, the job I want to have 20 years from now won't care at all that i've had a degree, but the jobs in between, the simple day jobs that pay rent, that get me up the ladder, they require the degree. Don't drop out just yet, I don't know what I wouldn't give to have my degree say NYU on it.

Sincerely, a 19 year old graduate. :)
 
I wish I could just agree whole heartedly with what everyone is saying, but I see it differently. Nobody hires you because of a degree... not in this industry. They hire you because you are smart, capable, hard working, and talented. School can't hurt you, but it doesn't always help you. Sure, you'll meet a bunch of people in college, but imagine how many invaluable contacts you can make working in the industry for 4 years. The ones that are going to make it in entertainment will do so with or without a degree. My advice is to jump when you feel ready to jump and don't have any regrets when you do. Good luck!
 
You should stay in school.

Having a degree will help you in ways that you cannot yet see. The advice that was given to me over twenty years ago when I was considering the same was, "They will always be making films, real talent will always find a way." You are in a good school and in a good program and it seems you have some talent. Stay in school and hit it hard when you are finished. That's what I did and I have not regretted it.
 
My son is a junior in high school and is looking for a college to further his education. I have been saving since he was born to send him to a good school. If he had the grades to get into NYU I would force him under gun point to go there. Stay in school. Like many have said it is not all about curriculum but the people you meet and begin to work with. While they may not be there for your entire career, they will be present in other ways. When I hire people to work on my films I could give a shit where they went to school but what is important is the work they have produced and while that may sound as if it conflicts with staying in school, I often learn they have gone through film programs and have had the commitment to image making ever since graduating.
 
I try to write only things that haven't been said so far.
I'm biased, my tip is go through it. If you are ahead of the schedule, use the environment to explore what you like to do. Schools are not there to provided you with a diploma or what ever alone, they need to give you the space to develop yourself in an safe environment. (my 2 cents, and not always a given in schools -- I know) A school should notice your skills, and they should be able to provide that kind of flexibility.

A serious side effect (been through that myself) is that many countries give you much easier or at all a work visa if you like to work-travel (based on such "evidence"). If you have some kind of papers for your skills, this might be a good support for that. Otherwise a huge stopper if you stay independent -- studios might overcome that short-coming for you, of course.

Good Luck.
 
honestly your better off dropping out. i have my film school degree and have been working on the TV side of things for 10 years. honestly the degree doesn't mean anything in the TV/Film industry. unless of course your trying to be a suit/ money person. if being a creative is your goal i'd say network with your fellow classmates or counselors and try your best to land a PA gig. actual work experience is more important than that degree. NYU film grads are a dime a dozen in this industry. take that school money you would of spent the last two years and put it towards living expenses and creating a film you can sell. also if you do drop out, make sure to check how long the credits you accumulated will be good for and if they are transferrable to another school. this way if you decide to go back to school to get a degree at some point you won't be starting over from scratch.Just my 2 cents.
 
Hey Michael, is Boris Frumin still teaching there? It was expensive when I went there, I can only imagine what it costs today. What I figured out back then was there were two types of folks- craft folk and chair folk. Craft folk work on everything to master specific skills and then there's the chair folk who try to get the best of the craft folk to do their films so they can sit in a chair. My problem is I had a foot in both camps and have stayed that way. Always put my at a hard fit. These days I fit right in.

If you are chair folk, getting into festivals and winning awards is the goal. It's at those places you do your networking and make contacts while showing off your latest script. The contacts you make in school won't matter unless you have to make your next film with your own money. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true, most of the people who went on to get a feature directing gig did not bring their crew with them.

If you are craft folk, then the guys you work with for 16 hours on the shoot with diet coke and m&m crafty will be invaluable. They are your buds. and will recommend you on gigs they get, and you are all out there together. I'm sure if you've already shot a couple of films there, these contacts will remain regardless of whether you leave now or later. I worked for my friends on their shoots outside of school and hired them when I started directing music videos for pay. Just remember if you are a craft person, your contacts in the industry will be people pertaining to that craft and they will help you get work and advance in that specific area, rarely or never as a director or indie filmmaker. That network is out in the festivals and script labs, that's where you pitch and the companies hand you their cards.

I love the idea of filmschool camaraderie but at NYU people are on a laser-like agenda; that's why they went to NYU. It's not like if you go to an in-state program and when you get out, you're all hanging out together, planning your movies. People go where the next gig is and you're lucky to cross paths again. The NYU piece of paper is the best paper you can get, and you've already managed to get half-way there- see it through. Just because you are attending classes doesn't mean you can't work outside of the school. I worked nights editing in online houses while attending grad, and that's how I met the music video company that hired me as a director.

Anyway, go with your gut and don't look back. There is no right way. If I followed the advice of one respected DP I worked with on set, I would have never bought my Aaton, and never made my first feature. No straight lines in the path of filmmaking. Oh and I did 2 years in ugrad, worked outside for a couple of years and got a scholarship back to grad based on the technical expertise I got working gigs, so there's that too.
 
No brainer: stay in school.

In a business where anyone can buy a camera and call themselves a DP, graduating with a full degree from a top school gives you a leg up in credibility. Having a liberal arts education that NYU also gives you, and the ability to learn to work with people and make mistakes while in school, is way more important than diving right in.

I went to NYU, and am now a camera operator. There's almost no overlap between what I specifically learned at NYU and what I do now, but having that extra, broad education, as well as credibility from a school like NYU, has helped dramatically.
 
I left art school after 2.5 years because I had a solid job shooting with a high level studio and was just ready to get on with my life. Now, 15 years later I work for myself, I have great clients and you know what I can't stop thinking about? Going back to school to finish my goddamn degree. No matter how successful you become you will always regret not completing this right of passage... from my aged perspective.

CB
 
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