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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Playstation 4k

Well, the PS3 was pretty much responsible for Blu-Ray take up (in a wider market) and it killed off the competing HD format (HDDVD).

The PS3 idea of a media hub was new (at the time) in 2006, as the Xbox was targeted as more of a games system.

Basically, Sony are using the PS4 to push 4K (UHD) playback... but they have not discussed any 'delivery' medium yet (Blu-ray, drive, stream or cloud etc). They have also not listed full specs... until then, it's hard to judge (ie games are already noted as being 1080 only as 4K isn't viable).

It looks like Sony is using the idea of a media platform again, with 4k/UHD being the carrot now (rather than 1080P/Blu-Ray).

Red have set out their stall already, Sony have done a partial reveal and there's still a lot of questions to be answered on the PS4.

Until then, I really doubt that it'll change any of Jim/Jarred's or Reds plans, as the market isn't the same.
 
Well one's been discussed and that's Netflix. They are going 4K and the PS4 will support it. Much of the hush is due to the lack of infrastructure and development on everybody's corner at the moment. E3 will be revealing. They didn't showcase hardware at the launch, which to me means a whole lot is up in the air. You can bet a pretty penny we'll be seeing HDMI 2.0 in that PS4 though.

Blu-Ray supports 4K playback and has the space to cover a full feature via h.265 (HEVC). But that standard is also brand spanking new. It will be what you'll be streaming 4K content with for the most part.

.RED is going to be higher quality and much more suitable for theatrical presentations.
 
PS4 will most likley use H.264 for 4k, which will probably result in 8-bit 4:2:0. REDRAY is said to use a higher bitdepth, so that gives it an advantage.

The PS4 most likely does not have HW support for H.265. At this time only 8-bit 4:2:0 H.265 is done. 10-bit and 4:2:2 are another year or more away.
 
Phil Holland said:
Blu-Ray supports 4K playback
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Why does this misinformation keep doing rounds? Blu-ray does not support 4K playback. Blu-ray Disc Association created a workgroup last October to look into the possibility but the work is still in progress.
 
GTX690 can handle UHD games easily...
BMD Extream4K can handle 4:2;2 4K video well...
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Why does this misinformation keep doing rounds? Blu-ray does not support 4K playback. Blu-ray Disc Association created a workgroup last October to look into the possibility but the work is still in progress.
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Apologies. Blu-ray can "potentially" support 4K as a format via it's current abilities as a storage medium.

The general research on h.265 points to approximately 18-30 Mbps for 4K at 24-30fps. Which makes it suitable for single layer Blu-Ray and even potentially up to 60fps content via double layer Blu-ray. (and still a hell of a download mind you)

There isn't currently a 4K Blu-ray player on the market, although there are now players that upscale to 4K apparently. Our current technology of encoding and playing back Blu-ray is not what's going to be used because the file sizes would be too large. Since the spec of the newer HEVC has opened the potential for this we'll likely see new players available on the market. Blu-ray as a storage medium with newer encoding and decoding methods are what's being talked about. That's not taking into accound BDXL discs.

What's left for manufacturers to decide is really whether streaming or a disc solution is the focus. Streaming is clearly going to happen. They'll need to decide if the profit margin is there to sell newer 4K Blu-ray discs and hardware.

Will this h.265 content be suitable for theatrical projection? Probably not from a quality standpoint at those bit rates. Which is why .RED is so appealing as the quality level is there and the file size is extremely competitive. Making things like the REDRAY Player and ODEMAX very nice options for both theater and home use.
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Why does this misinformation keep doing rounds? Blu-ray does not support 4K playback. Blu-ray Disc Association created a workgroup last October to look into the possibility but the work is still in progress.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. It does support 4K because the underlying tech allows it. Currently, 4K video can easily be encoded to fit on a 50GB disc thanks to the advancements in h.264 encoding and decoding optimization - which has allowed 4K for a while now - and triple/quad-layer discs with 100GB capacity for high-bitrate content have been a reality for several years and only require software tweaks to enable playback in existing players despite not being part of the standard. The "workgroup" is merely an informal thing where Sony and Panasonic - the two companies that essentially control the format - share what they have been working on with other companies to determine the standards and such. The actual 4K workgroup has been working behind the scenes for a few years now and is not composed of anyone you'll see on BDA write-ups because they are engineers and such that work with others from other companies to create 4K displays and video playback solutions. 4K Blu-Ray is coming very soon.
 
L. Langer said:
Incorrect. It does support 4K because the underlying tech allows it.
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Oh, okay. Encode a few 4K clips in H.264, author a 4K Blu-ray Disc out of them and play the disc in a Blu-ray player, outputting 4K. Oops, you can't. 4K is not in the Blu-ray spec, i.e. Blu-ray does not support 4K - that's what I'm saying. Claiming it does because you can encode 4K files and burn them on BD-R is quite disingenious, as if I was talking about the media only which I of course was not.

4K Blu-Ray is coming very soon.
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Define "coming" and "very soon".
 
Actually, you could record a data disc full of 4k files and play them off the disc. So technically it could play 4k h264 files off of a blu-ray, CD, DVD, USB, HDD, etc. You can do that with current PS3 (with 1080p files not 4k)... that is, play 1080p files off of disc that aren't necessarily authored to Blu-Ray spec, but instead made as data disc to hold 25gb or video files. Being that most 4k content will probably be streamed and disc-based media is fading off, I'd imagine that file based movie clips would be quite popular moving forward... It'd be really funny if the PS4 included .RED codec support, although that would really make RRay moot... It's probably possible; RED is releasing a .RED codec for PCs/Mac, right?

As for official "4k Blu-Ray" I seem to recall them mentioning it as well, but I didn't hear a timeframe (they also mentioned upscaled 1080p BD-Rs looking better, but that's not something I would pay for.)
 
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This is like saying DVD's are 1080P HD... because you can copy 1080 HD files onto them, then play back those files using a decoder. That'd also make ZIP and JAZZ drives 1080 HD players too(!).

Media storage =/= playback spec. Blu-Ray is not 4K. I had previously thought it was too. Easy mistake to make but 4K delivery is still very much being fleshed out.
 
Rob Anderson said:
This is like saying DVD's are 1080P HD... because you can copy 1080 HD files onto them, then play back those files using a decoder. That'd also make ZIP and JAZZ drives 1080 HD players too(!).

Media storage =/= playback spec. Blu-Ray is not 4K. I had previously thought it was too. Easy mistake to make but 4K delivery is still very much being fleshed out.
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Well there is a BD9 and BD5 spec for HD on DVD media...
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Oh, okay. Encode a few 4K clips in H.264, author a 4K Blu-ray Disc out of them and play the disc in a Blu-ray player, outputting 4K. Oops, you can't. 4K is not in the Blu-ray spec, i.e. Blu-ray does not support 4K - that's what I'm saying. Claiming it does because you can encode 4K files and burn them on BD-R is quite disingenious, as if I was talking about the media only which I of course was not.


Define "coming" and "very soon".
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Sony is pretty darn smart. I think they will figure out how to get this all to work. Mind you maybe the major reason they have not released too much detail. Regardless...the damn PS4 could play back a 4K file it would seem its got the guts for it, so it seems almost for sure they will find a way to make blu-ray support it.

We are guessing here on what Blu-ray can do but perhaps we should just sit back and see as it can do it...but will the spec exist. I say yes it will.
 
I read that PS4 Blu ray can play 4K files or movies from one of their senior CEOs. I'll grab the link.
 
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The advantage of Redray is the compression. Even if Sony uses H264, the file size for 4K movie downloads is going to be very large. Believe me, I know, because I encoded my film "TimeScapes" to H264 4K, and it's only 45 mins long. Are people willing -- or even able -- to download 50GB or 100GB 4K movies onto a PS4? I wonder how ISPs will feel about that?

Somehow, I don't know how, Red has managed to get beautiful 4K films down to roughly the same file size you might expect from a 1080p Bluray rip on bit torrents -- so roughly in the 10GB range, or less. That is a massive advantage.
 
awhile back - Jim stated that the internal 1TB drive on the REDRay Player would hold approx -> 100 hours of 4K material in the .RED codec
 
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