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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Going to Be a Bit "Upset" if We Don't Get Dragon Upgrade

Dion Eusepi said:
If Scarlet is indeed being retired by Red, Red needs to clearly state that to customers and communicate a support plan through end of life. They have not done so. Saying there is no upgrade path for Scarlet to Dragon is equivalent to saying the Scarlet platform will be retired which is OK. That said, Scarlet still has a substantial installed base many of whom don't want to be forced into trade in and trade up. Call it what you will, but it is forced obsolescence at a premium price for users who already have a substantial investment in the platform. Forced obsolescence does not mean "obsolescence obsolete". The 4-Xk space will get increasingly more competitive after NAB 2013 and there will be more quality choices at competitive prices. Not all Red customers are "chasing the Dragon" . In fairness to Scarlet customers (old and new), Red needs to come clean soon with a concrete upgrade/migration path (trade in and trade up) and a support strategy for Scarlet through end of life.
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Yeah! Just like all of the other camera systems electronics I've owned over the years! RED should really get out in front of this quick - because the outrage on the inter webs is going to get huge!

Oh wait… Arri, Panasonic, Sony have all EOL'd camera platforms that I own (and are now gathering dust in the equipment room) with a press release announcement of newer technology. No warning and in the case of Panasonic & Sony the new cameras didn't use any of the same accessories / batteries / capture medium of the ones that they were replacing…

Some people need a reality check - what company out there holds your hand when they EOL their products?
 
Shane Kelly said:
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This gets the silly, passive aggressive post of the day award.
Folks can talk about whatever they want.
 
Does the scarlet suck all of a sudden?

Cause i seem to remember shooting some of my best footage to date on it..... The Hassidic Jewish movie in the clip below. This was an assemblage of four scenes that will go toward my new reel. though, likely most of it will be dropped as i have shot some better stuff since. That said, the Scarlet footage is still some of my favorite.


PW reduser
 
Those of us who have been around since the first R1 know very well that everything will change at a moment's notice, and what was suggested yesterday will probably change today.

That message has been lost in the last couple of years but the fact is when we buy into Red, we are buying into the philosophy.

Sometimes we benefit, sometimes we get left behind. In the end I think that's what it comes down to.

For me I've experienced both as an R1, Epic and Scarlet owner, but in the long run I am WAY ahead for banking on Red.

They do have the best interests of their customers at heart and sometimes it means pulling off a bandaid or two.
 
I'm with you on this Jim.

jimhare said:
Those of us who have been around since the first R1 know very well that everything will change at a moment's notice, and what was suggested yesterday will probably change today.

That message has been lost in the last couple of years but the fact is when we buy into Red, we are buying into the philosophy.

Sometimes we benefit, sometimes we get left behind. In the end I think that's what it comes down to.

For me I've experienced both as an R1, Epic and Scarlet owner, but in the long run I am WAY ahead for banking on Red.

They do have the best interests of their customers at heart and sometimes it means pulling off a bandaid or two.
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Timur Civan said:
Does the scarlet suck all of a sudden?

Cause i seem to remember shooting my best footage to date on it.....
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Yeah it started sucking a couple months back when they released the BT Scarlets and then dropped the price. Suckage went off the charts when Dragon was taken off the table.
You must be delusional if you think you got any great - or even usable - footage from what is essentially an overpriced (for what you get) intentionally disabled Epic.

***Sarcasm*** for those of you who are sarcasm challenged.
 
Timur Civan said:
Does the scarlet suck all of a sudden?

Cause i seem to remember shooting some of my best footage to date on it..... The Hassidic Jewish movie in the clip below. This was an assemblage of four scenes that will go toward my new reel. though, likely most of it will be dropped as i have shot some better stuff since. That said, the Scarlet footage is still some of my favorite.


PW reduser
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Cooke's?
 
news flash...

buy a camera today.. it will be worth HALF of what you paid in a year..

its only gunna get worst.. dont buy a camera if you arent prepared to watch its EOL happen in a short amount of time..

its going to get to the point where its impossible to recoup your investment, unless your working 2-3 days a week, renting that camera out...

lenses people... its all about lenses
 
It's so refreshing to hear the truth.

I was convinced that my Scarlet was capable of images as good as the EPIC, so I sent it to an engineer friend and he sent me this footage test back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHte24GGHD4

**sense of humour required**
 
Just got back from a shoot, Epic A cam Scarlet B cam. It would be impossible to tell the footage apart. The Scarlet is an insanely good deal IMO.
 
Mike P. said:
Why, because it's February 2nd?

dun dun duuuunnnn... Shyamalan-twist.

I can see where the OP is coming from; 4.5k and 2k/120fps are definitely great and would have been cheaper. And now that you're going to have to pay a buttload to "upgrade" (presumably much more than the original purchase price) it kind of does EOL the Scarlet (not it's form-factor mind you, but that's not really a good consolation for someone who bought the camera hoping it'd be bleeding-edge for years rather than months.)

Sure the trade-in is more than any other company would give, but something tells me the majority of Scarlet owners were expecting (as per RED's own suggestion) that the price of Dragon Sensor was to be less than the original Scarlet Brain cost instead of potentially double the original brain cost. If they had known, potential purchasers *may* have opted for an FS700 last year (to hold them over) and then an F5 this year... it would have been cheaper and given them a B-cam (or they could have sold the FS700 to offset the F5 purchase to make it even cheaper by comparison). So yeah, I know there are a few Scarlet owners who *assumed* they would essentially be getting a bleeding-edge camera re-fresh for less than $9700 that probably aren't going to get that (if the Scarlet-to-Epic-D is only $9700, I'd imagine Epic owners would shit all over RED.)

That said (and I realize no one likes to hear this), if you bought the camera for what it *might* eventually become (even if the manufacturer heavily suggested it), you can't really hold anyone but yourself accountable for that decision/gamble. It's understandable to feel slighted (you bought the hype) but the solution is a simple/obvious one; sell your RED gear and buy the camera solution that better fits your needs. Conversely, if there is a next time, wait 12-18months (for price drop and/or upgrade details to be finalized) before buying a RED camera.
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Exactly. I'm not sure why some others are getting so snarky about. And you're spot on... had I'd known, I definitely would have gone another route and would not have bought the Scarlet. The way Ted always sold it, the Dragon was coming to Scarlet. The only question was "how much"... it was never "if".
 
Paul Schneider said:
This gets the silly, passive aggressive post of the day award.
Folks can talk about whatever they want.
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EXACTLY. This is forum to figure things out, discuss problems and talk about solutions... when someone posts a childish picture like this, it defeats the purpose of a forum. Should was just praise RED all day long about how great everything is, when clearly Hollywood and television are HEAVILY going toward Alexa... and Panavision is releasing their camera soon too. This is the time when RED needs us all on board and I'm sorry that it "offends" some of you to discuss a MAJOR selling point of the Scarlet that is now void.
 
Glen Powell said:
This isn't a time for jokes - I don't think you understand the OP's anguish and pain. He bought a second hand used Scarlet from a 3rd party and he expects a dragon upgrade. He was suckered into buying a Scarlet only to find out that it was dead useless irrelevant technology… The final insult is that everyone wants an Alexa for their next project and not the Scarlet. Only with Dragon will he be a complete and competent filmmaker!

It's hard.

*** I hope you can all read the heavy dollop of sarcasm in my typing***
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Thanks for that keen insight... and arrogance. I'm sure that kind of attitude to amazing to work with on set huh.

Obviously the camera doesn't make the filmmaker, it never has, but it helps... which is why I was saying if the Scarlet was topped out, technology-wise, I would have just bought the R1MX for half the price. It's a valid question, so friggin' chill.
 
Jason Honeycutt said:
Exactly. I'm not sure why some others are getting so snarky about. And you're spot on... had I'd known, I definitely would have gone another route and would not have bought the Scarlet. The way Ted always sold it, the Dragon was coming to Scarlet. The only question was "how much"... it was never "if".
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Your concern befuddles me. It has been made pretty clear that Dragon will be made available to Scarlet owners - most likely through a trade-in, not an upgrade. If cost is not the issue, why do you care how it's done? Anyone who ever thought the path to Dragon would be inexpensive was simply not paying attention.
 
jason, it's still a question of how much - it just probably won't say 'scarlet' on the side. but i'm sure you could just email jarred and ask him for a custom quote if it means that much to you.
 
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