Spider-man 2 Shooting Film, not Epic?

[Michel Hafner]

. At any rate, the Blu-Ray looked like shit. Sony did a piss-poor job with it while the VOD/Broadcast was stunning.

Details? Both come from the same digital 1080p master, no? Except one is better compressed than the other.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Not shot in 3D, means no 3D viewing for me.

Did you stay away from The Avengers? You know, that little 2012 movie that made $1.5 billion?

So far, I'd say that was the best-looking post-converted 3D movie I've ever seen. Alice in Wonderland​ is a close second. And any movie with serious visual effects goes through a dimensionalizing process, since so much of the scene never existed in front of the 3D cameras.

 

[Maik Müller]

Did you stay away from The Avengers? You know, that little 2012 movie that made $1.5 billion?

So far, I'd say that was the best-looking post-converted 3D movie I've ever seen. Alice in Wonderland​ is a close second. And any movie with serious visual effects goes through a dimensionalizing process, since so much of the scene never existed in front of the 3D cameras.

Post-conversation can be done right, especially if they're shooting for 3D. It's also a great way to give old movies a bit of depth. I heard Titanic looks nice, well it's J. Cameron behind it, one of the director's that have some love for 3D.

But there is still so much stuff in front of the camera that will end up being only a 2D-plate, so if you choose to put 3D on top of a 2D-shoot its like missing a opportunity to make it perfect.

I think this trend just shows how much director's lost interest in working with 3D, they don't use it as creative tool that opens up new possibilities, maybe don't understand it as such. 3D and traditional 2D-shooting nearly everywhere, thats disappointing. I guess lots of people just turned back to what they know best and 3D became a special feature that you put in afterwards, simply because studios request it to make more money with.

BTW, Spiderman, didn't Sony just announce it as one of their first "Mastered in 4k"-BluRays? Guess the overcompressed first release gives this a reason to exist, hehe.

 

[shashbugu]

Features Nominated for 2012 Best Picture and/or Ourstanding Cinematography by the AMPAS and ASC along with the Directors, DPs, and formats they employed
- Amour, Director Michael Haneke, DP Darius Khondji Camera/Format: Arri Alexa, ARRIRAW, Cooke Spherical
- Argo, Director Ben Affleck, DP Rodrigo Prieto, Format: Mostly 35mm Kodak Film on ARRICAM with some ARRI Alexa/ARRIRAW, and some 16mm, and 8mm mixed in
- Beasts of the Southern Wild, Director Bhen Zeitlin, DP Ben Richardson Camera: ARRI 16SR3, S16 Kodak Film, Zeiss Lenses, Spherical
- Django Unchained, Director Quentin Tarantino, DP Robert Richardson, ASC, Camera/Format Panavision on 35mm Kodak Film, Anamorphic
- Les Misérables, Director Tom Hooper, DP Danny Cohen Camera/Format, Arricam, S35mm Kodak Film, Spherical
- Life of Pi, Director Ang Lee, DP Claudio Miranda, ASC, Head of Stereography Graham D. Clark, (DCS Member), Stereographer, Brian Gardner, Camera/Format Arri Alexa, PACE Fusion 3-D
- Lincoln, Director Steven Spielberg., DP Janusz Kaminski, Camera/Format: Panavision on S35mm Kodak Film
- Silver Linings Playbook, Director David O. Russell, DP Masanobu Takayanagi, Camera/Format, Arricam, S35mm Kodak Film, Spherical
- Zero Dark Thirty, Director Kathryn Bigelow, DP Greig Fraser, Camera/Format: Arri Alexa, ARRIRAW, Cooke Spherical
- Anna Karenina, Director Joe Wright, DP Seamus McGarvey
Camera/Format Panavision on 35mm Kodak Film, Anamorphic

Skyfall, Director Sam Mendes, DP Roger Deakins, ASC, BSC, Camer/Format: ARRI Alexa, ARRIRAW, with some RED Epic REDcode RAW mixed in for 2nd Unit Action Shots

 

[Paul Harb]

DOP's and Directors seem to like Alexa time and time again over Red. They seem to care less about higher resolution except for very specific things. It seems the Red is being used for VFX shots and where the cameras small form factor is the difference....not the image. Why is this in peoples opinions?

 

[paulherrin]

Although I think this decision has more to do with anamorphic lenses and how nice film rather then rolling shutter I think we should give this "Film has rolling shutter too" some perspective here because I feel it's not comparable.

your example is from a r1... epic is significantly faster, no?

and you can also use anamorphic lenses, yes?

perhaps the decision simply has to do with preference?

 

[L. Langer]

Details? Both come from the same digital 1080p master, no? Except one is better compressed than the other.

Ask Mike Most (M Most) about that. He would know. Basically the Blu-Ray image looks dull and subdued - some say not as sharp as it should as well - and the movie I and others saw via VOD was anything but.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

DOP's and Directors seem to like Alexa time and time again over Red. They seem to care less about higher resolution except for very specific things. It seems the Red is being used for VFX shots and where the cameras small form factor is the difference....not the image. Why is this in peoples opinions?

If we're talking Alexa with Codex RAW recorder, then, I suppose, many cinematographers prefer creamier, less "electronic" or "harsh" image with grain-like noise characteristics. High resolution is great, if it accompanied by wide dynamic range, "gentle" highlight rolloff and "pleasing" colors (the latter one is a little subjective matter, obviously). Alexa seem to satisfy most of the cinematographer's needs with the resolution, as many believe, comparable to scanned 35mm film. But then again, there's people like Stéphane Fontaine, who chose Red to shoot "Rust and Bone" and prefer to tweak R3D footage in post, rather than rely on the in-camera settings. Claudio Miranda shot "Oblivion" mostly on F65, I guess he likes how recent Sony chips capture colors, even though 4K out of the camera is very sharp, what for some other guy might be seen as a problem.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Some people just like going backwards... Bite me...

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

your example is from a r1... epic is significantly faster, no?

and you can also use anamorphic lenses, yes?

perhaps the decision simply has to do with preference?

Perhaps, but I still think the anamorphic lens weighs in because although you can stick an anamorphic lens on an Epic you don't get the full benefit of the anamorphic lens, sure you'll still get the fancy bokeh but you lose a lot of field of view as seen in my mock up which is entirely a simulation which I think is good enough reason to go for film if you want anamorphic, or an Alexa but ultimately it's up to which you want more, Anamorphic or Epic.
If shooting Epic is more important to you then hey slap that anamorphic lens on and who cares about the loss of FOV but if Anamorphic lenses is where your heart lies then the Epic just isn't good enough.

On the epic's rolling shutter vs the red one, even if it's fast enough to match the Alexa's performance it still looks kinda wonky compared to the film camera.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Some people just like going backwards... Bite me...

In this case, I don't agree. Although there are times when I question the reasoning for choosing a particular camera, such as the one I documented here on Reduser, in general I feel the choice comes down to aesthetics and achieving a look for a movie, commercial, music video, etc. Although we all acknowledge that film use is on the decline, we should embrace it as an artistic choice, same with all of the digital cinema cameras. I have met and worked with DPs whose selection of Alexa was not due to blind allegiance to Arri but as a result of tests that led them to the conclusion that this was the camera for them. Some have been able to articulate this choice very well. I never got the impression they felt they were stepping backwards. Now there have been instances where I felt the Alexa was chosen due to blind allegiance or anti-Red sentiment. But in those instances, you just have to let people sink or swim. Such is life.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Grittier story calls for grittier image? Whatever the case, after reading decades' worth of American Cinematographer often times shooting format, unless required for certain special traits, comes down to DP preference more than anything. If the DP is more comfortable with film and VFX doesn't call for anything in particular then what can you do? I would imagine most of the Spider-Man stuff will be all CG anyway so they're just grabbing plates and as long as it's in focus it doesn't matter what you film it with these days.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

In this case, I don't agree. Although there are times when I question the reasoning for choosing a particular camera, such as the one I documented here on Reduser, in general I feel the choice comes down to aesthetics and achieving a look for a movie, commercial, music video, etc. Although we all acknowledge that film use is on the decline, we should embrace it as an artistic choice, same with all of the digital cinema cameras. I have met and worked with DPs whose selection of Alexa was not due to blind allegiance to Arri but as a result of tests that led them to the conclusion that this was the camera for them. Some have been able to articulate this choice very well. I never got the impression they felt they were stepping backwards. Now there have been instances where I felt the Alexa was chosen due to blind allegiance or anti-Red sentiment. But in those instances, you just have to let people sink or swim. Such is life.

Your reasoning is good Steve, however I still remain of the same opinion.

 

[Jon Jones]

I used to just be all for RED, then they played their price dropping shiz, now I realize the RED company is just like any other big corp, and there's just no point in being a RED only shooter. I personally would buy an Alexa if not for the prohibitive cost. They have a look that is unmatched, except for maybe by the F65, which is also cost prohibitive. I think that I am going to go with an F55, eventually. The Global shutter, and built in ND's are looking better and better everyday!

In this case, I don't agree. Although there are times when I question the reasoning for choosing a particular camera, such as the one I documented here on Reduser, in general I feel the choice comes down to aesthetics and achieving a look for a movie, commercial, music video, etc. Although we all acknowledge that film use is on the decline, we should embrace it as an artistic choice, same with all of the digital cinema cameras. I have met and worked with DPs whose selection of Alexa was not due to blind allegiance to Arri but as a result of tests that led them to the conclusion that this was the camera for them. Some have been able to articulate this choice very well. I never got the impression they felt they were stepping backwards. Now there have been instances where I felt the Alexa was chosen due to blind allegiance or anti-Red sentiment. But in those instances, you just have to let people sink or swim. Such is life.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I am not all RED because I love the guys @ RED or RED as a company, I am all RED because the EPIC is the absolute BEST all around camera there is as of NOW, and that can change in the feature, oh wait it already has, its called DRAGON...


Arri will bring their 4K Alexa or what ever they'll call it, Canon will continue to maze NOT, and Sony will follow with their best attempts, too little too late, but its a good effort, and for those that still choose Film good on them, I chose never to shoot Film... PERIOD.


The only way RED would loose me as a loyal costumer, is not because they lowered their prices or made their new products more expensive, but only if there cameras don't perform, and for this I think that I'll be a RED costumer for a long time to come...


For all others... Good thing that they are choices out there...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Why is Amour on this list? My bet is "big names", I can t see any other reasons.

The point DPs take a medium because it has a look is a valid one, the question is what leads them to choose a specific look and don t work with orher medium available? Some have an idea of what a "cinematic look" should be. A kind of technocracy ideology based on how things have to be made.

Look instead of choosing a look.

Pat

 

[Jon Jones]

Ketch, I totally agree with your choice on film. Yuck, I can't even think about all of the issues shooting on of film has. Yes film looks great, but it's super cost prohibitive, and TONS more work!! Especially for us contract shooters. I'm glad that RED has turned the industry on it's head, it really made room for all of us who wanted our own pro gear, but couldn't justify spending over 100k on camera alone. Now there are multiple 4k cameras out there that are within reach, and it's all because RED jumped into the marketplace with a billion dollars behind them, and dared other camera manufacturers to compete with them.

 

[Andy White]

Perhaps, but I still think the anamorphic lens weighs in because although you can stick an anamorphic lens on an Epic you don't get the full benefit of the anamorphic lens, sure you'll still get the fancy bokeh but you lose a lot of field of view as seen in my mock up which is entirely a simulation which I think is good enough reason to go for film if you want anamorphic, or an Alexa but ultimately it's up to which you want more, Anamorphic or Epic.
If shooting Epic is more important to you then hey slap that anamorphic lens on and who cares about the loss of FOV but if Anamorphic lenses is where your heart lies then the Epic just isn't good enough.

Attached Thumbnails

On the epic's rolling shutter vs the red one, even if it's fast enough to match the Alexa's performance it still looks kinda wonky compared to the film camera.

Your loss of FOV example/mock up is based on what data? It looks a little extreme.

BTW - great choice of movie - I love Last of the Mohicans (apart from teh wobbly sack-cloth rocks near the end!)

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Perhaps, but I still think the anamorphic lens weighs in because although you can stick an anamorphic lens on an Epic you don't get the full benefit of the anamorphic lens, sure you'll still get the fancy bokeh but you lose a lot of field of view as seen in my mock up which is entirely a simulation which I think is good enough reason to go for film if you want anamorphic, or an Alexa but ultimately it's up to which you want more, Anamorphic or Epic.
If shooting Epic is more important to you then hey slap that anamorphic lens on and who cares about the loss of FOV but if Anamorphic lenses is where your heart lies then the Epic just isn't good enough.

On the epic's rolling shutter vs the red one, even if it's fast enough to match the Alexa's performance it still looks kinda wonky compared to the film camera.

This looks about right... If you have the same aspect.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Why is Amour on this list? My bet is "big names", I can t see any other reasons.

The point DPs take a medium because it has a look is a valid one, the question is what leads them to choose a specific look and don t work with orher medium available? Some have an idea of what a "cinematic look" should be. A kind of technocracy ideology based on how things have to be made.

Look instead of choosing a look.

Pat

Knowing a tool really well can play a role in this. The comfort level some DPs have with film is really amazing. They know their film stocks to a very high degree and trust their light meters/eyes and know what they are going to get for the most part. Although, I did see this somewhat debated by David Fincher in Side By Side. He said that he would ask the DP if they nailed the shot and most of the time they did but some of the time they didn't and that would piss him off. He now likes knowing what the shot is right there on set. So film is by no means perfect but ask yourself this. If you were making a movie and picked a DP that you thought could deliver the goods based on their prior work, would you rather shoot on a format they feel they can best deliver those goods or a format that is dictated by a producer or maybe you as the director? If the DP says, RED is the best choice to shoot this movie shouldn't that hold some weight? If the DP says film would be best and articulates why, shouldn't that hold some weight? Loyalty to a brand or a format should only go as far as the needs of the project, no? I'm loyal to RED in that I'm a paying customer and use the cameras a lot but if there is a need that requires a different camera, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. Doesn't mean I'm less loyal, just means that there was a more appropriate tool.

I know this topic gets kind of old, so I'm doing no one any favors by keeping it going but it's something I feel strongly about as I have observed DPs over the past few years. It's a shame when someone is forced to use something they don't want to. For example, when a DP who usually doesn't like shooting on RED but realizes it's the best camera for a particular job because they need tons of resolution only to be shot down and forced to use an Alexa shooting shooting to ProRes. Those are the times when you scratch your head.

So, getting back to Spiderman, it seems to me that they have hired Dan based on his previous work and Dan's tool of choice is film. It's what he knows how to use best and what he will probably get the best results from. On a movie like this, the cost of the cameras or film stock isn't really that big a deal. It's really about what they are trying to achieve visually.