Ahh yes, lighting....

[Michael Pyon]

Hey guys

This might have been requested before, but being a film student at NYU, I feel like the program thus far hasn't taught me a single useful thing about lighting (a subject I consider myself to be very weak on, especially artificially). So what my question to the RED community is, how do you understand lighting as a whole? Did you learn from a book or perhaps an article from the American Cinematographer? Is the knowledge gained purely through working on set, or is it something studied in a film? Is there any advice you can give on how to use good lighting or what not to do?

Whatever you feel that has helped advanced you in your understanding of lighting, I would very much like to look into. I'm going to be looking at this thread as a resource, that'll hopefully be more informative than my professors.

Thank you,
Michael Pyon

 

[Paul Hudson]

Experience is invaluable. I always observe lighting in real conditions when I see something I like I store it in my memory for use on shoots. You will develop an eye if you study the real environment and the works of other DP's

 

[Ayan Pratap]

Experience is invaluable. I always observe lighting in real conditions when I see something I like I store it in my memory for use on shoots. You will develop an eye if you study the real environment and the works of other DP's

Absolutely true!

Read books, they can help you get the basics of lighting down. I suggest shooting on your own as much as possible and designing your own lighting plans. Try to imagine your shots in your head and lighting schemes. The basic themes you would like to bring out in a shot / scene. Dramatic, light, happy, surreal etc and sooner or later the more you imagine, the more ideas you get and you will begin to notice similar works from other DPs / painters etc. You will just absorb information without even noticing when you start thinking consciously about what you are trying to achieve.

In my opinion, there are no set in stone rules to lighting, there are just good choices and bad choices, which can impact your film for its look / character. This is important to keep in mind, at least for me it is. This enables you to be always open for experimentation and not making anything stale looking.

my 1c..

 

[Phil Holland]

Lighting is a wondrous, beautifully simple and yet complicated subject. A great deal of my free time is spent daydreaming about different lighting setups and then trying to test them out.


Advice, Long answer:

Practice. Everyday. Starting out back when I was in my late teens I did a lot of self portraiture everyday for about two years. Then applied that to miniatures, objects, people. Practicing and gaining experience. Also drawing out lighting concepts and painting them. Lots of experimentation. Many different light sources. Playing with exposures. Low key, high key. Hard sources and soft sources. Mixing and matching them. Trying to mimic other's lighting scenarios (paintings, photographs, movies) then trying to recreate situations and setups I had developed in my mind or on paper. Figuring out different ratios and their effect on the subject for different exposures. Discovering how angle of incidence comes into play on different surfaces, materials, and textures. I remember playing with flashlights to setup and study quicker. Practicing. Observing different effects of light roll off. Observing natural lighting conditions, ambient lighting conditions, mixed sources, and adding artificial to the mix. Adding flare and glare to the equation and protecting against it's seductive and alluring ways. Using, building, and tinkering with different types of light shaping tools. Making notes how sources effect skin tones. Making notes on mood and tone. Experimenting with filtration, both common and uncommon. Making notes on how different glass when subjected to direct sources alters the color/contrast of the frame. Playing with fill and negative fill. Studying how to create different types of shadows and controlling not only the light, but also the darkness. Which is equally as powerful. Discovering the power of the silhouette, how define shape, and carve out different forms.

Make notes along the way to you have a visual index to go back to. Here's one of mine.

In many ways this is all you need to know, and this applies to drawing/painting as well:

Then experimenting in the real world. Different sources, levels of diffusion, bounce, different modifiers, etc....

I still practice and experiment all the time.


Short answer:

My advice is to study, observe, experiment, and practice.

 

[Paul Hudson]

Lighting is a wondrous, beautifully simple and yet complicated subject. A great deal of my free time is spent daydreaming about different lighting setups and then trying to test them out. Advice, Long answerractice. Everyday. Starting out back when I was in my late teens I did a lot of self portraiture everyday for about two years. Then applied that to miniatures, objects, people. Practicing and gaining experience. Also drawing out lighting concepts and painting them. Lots of experimentation. Many different light sources. Playing with exposures. Low key, high key. Hard sources and soft sources. Mixing and matching them. Trying to mimic other's lighting scenarios (paintings, photographs, movies) then trying to recreate situations and setups I had developed in my mind or on paper. Figuring out different ratios and their effect on the subject for different exposures. Discovering how angle of incidence comes into play on different surfaces, materials, and textures. I remember playing with flashlights to setup and study quicker. Practicing. Observing different effects of light roll off. Observing natural lighting conditions, ambient lighting conditions, mixed sources, and adding artificial to the mix. Adding flare and glare to the equation and protecting against it's seductive and alluring ways. Using, building, and tinkering with different types of light shaping tools. Making notes how sources effect skin tones. Making notes on mood and tone. Experimenting with filtration, both common and uncommon. Making notes on how different glass when subjected to direct sources alters the color/contrast of the frame. Playing with fill and negative fill. Studying how to create different types of shadows and controlling not only the light, but also the darkness. Which is equally as powerful. Discovering the power of the silhouette, how define shape, and carve out different forms.Make notes along the way to you have a visual index to go back to. Here's one of mine.

In many ways this is all you need to know, and this applies to drawing/painting as well:

Then experimenting in the real world. Different sources, levels of diffusion, bounce, different modifiers, etc....

I still practice and experiment all the time. Short answer:My advice is to study, observe, experiment, and practice.

And because I can never decide what light, diffusion, bounce etc... I haul everything I may need in this.

 

[Phil Holland]

And because I can never decide what light, diffusion, bounce etc... I haul everything I may need in this.

Don't make me jealous Paul I'm working up to that I hope. Thinking about getting a Sprinter next year.

 

[Mark Phelan]

Wonderful advice from all of the above. Experience is key. (Some light humor. Doh, I did it again.)

I'll never forget one time early on, the photographer I was working for asked me to light a pump for a simple product shot. It baffled me because it had a chrome shaft on it. I spent hours trying to figure out the best way to light what essentially was a 360º mirror. Great lesson for me.

The best teaching however has been watching, listening and learning from the great and talented shooters I've had the privilege of working with over the years. Each had their own style and equipment preferences. I still love learning from anyone with a good idea. The best teacher is the Lord Almighty and what we see daily. Nothing compares as much as we try and emulate. Light illuminates. Perhaps it is why we cherish it so much.

 

[Michael Pyon]

Thank you to everyone who take the time to respond and I hope to make good use of your advice.

 

[Jacques Mersereau]

A great way to learn is to call some lighting guys and offer to schelp gear for free so you can just be there to observe.
Quickly make them understand you're passionate, what your schooling didn't teach you, and that you'll give your best effort
just so you can learn. Then make sure you show up slightly ahead of time, are fed, watered and ready to go with gloves, a leatherman,
flashlight and C-wrench.

I agree with Phil and do a lot of daydreaming myself. There is a ton to learn about lighting. Interview shoots vs. theatrical lighting for the camera, vs. film style. They all share similarities, but are also very different. I don't know about everyone else, but I never stop learning and love to work with other experts.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Since you're a New York local, you could always come to some of AbelCine's lighting classes and workshops. We offer several. This weekend we have a free event from 12-6, the AbelCine EXPO: Innovations in Lighting. Included in this event is a lighting seminar taught by David Mullen, ASC.

http://training.abelcine.com/event/abelcine-expo-innovations-in-lighting-new-york/

 

[Shane Kelly]

I'd agree with Jacques and say that a great way to learn is to watch how others do it. Lighting has so much variation - the unit used, the color temperature of the light, the placement of the lamp and the way that it is diffused, bounced or flagged. All of these contribute to creating a look that pertains to the story that you are trying to tell. By working alongside a good gaffer or dp you will quickly learn tricks of the trade.
If you want to examine how light falls on a face, get a bare bulb and a willing subject (or even yourself in a mirror) and move it around the head. The prettiest light may not always be the best light for the story. Look at how the position of the lamp affects the lighting style. Hold it below your chin - horror movie maybe. Off to the side - hi contrast film noir style. Directly above your head, the sparkle in your eyes disappears giving you a "godfather" type look. This is all oversimplification but you get the idea.
Also,after years of collecting images and filing them in different places, I recently joined pinterest and find it a fantastic resource for keeping visual inspiration in one place.
here's my current page: http://pinterest.com/shanefkelly/photography/
Go to any lighting workshop that you can. I've attended many over the years and always come away with something. Above all, never stop looking at light, especially natural light. Always question why it looks the way it does. Is it bouncing off something? a window perhaps (lots of this going on in NYC), is it being diffused? through shear curtains or an overcast sky? Is it hard or soft? What emotion does this evoke? By understanding natural light you can then learn how to recreate it with lamps.

For reading, the two books that I learned the most from are Kris Malkiewicz's "film Lighting" and above all "Masters of Light"- Schaefer and Salvato.
Hope this helps,
Shane.

 

[Michael Pyon]

Thank you Mitch, I just rsvp'd and I'll be there this Saturday for the entire event. Hope to see you there!

 

[Jon Carr]

The best way for many is to start as a grip. This way your learn first handed about rigging and most importantly shaping of the light. Let the electric drop the unit but as a grip your add the diff, gels, cutter, skims, etc will give you a better understanding of how light works. Working your way up in the G&E department your learn how many dp's and gaffer's light, and use that knowledge to create your own style. I mainly DP, but I will always gaffe cause I love working with light, there's always another shoot to try something new.

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

what is it specifically you feel you don't understand about lighting? Yes there's much more to it but I mean just in the overall sense it's pretty simple, light your subject in such a way that they pop and separate from the background so that the image is 3 dimensional and doesn't appear flat/bland (yes that's a gross over simplification)

 

[Michael Pyon]

It's such a broad confusion for me really Peter, but I might be giving myself too little credit. I just feel weak and not confident when dealing with lights to get the image I want, I guess mostly because I haven't used lights in over 2 years. In high school, we had this "TV Studio" class where I would constantly grib and gaffe using lights on the floor and on the ceiling grid. But that was a long time ago and I haven't gotten much practice since. I guess what I really need to do is just play around with lights enough to get that "cinema" feel which I know my films lack.

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

Just remember the rule is that lighting is not about getting an overall exposure level or ambience level. We don't light just for things to be visible on camera. Lighting is about setting an appropriate mood. For instance in a comedy or romantic movie often "high key" lighting is the preferred style. This is a type of lighting that's very brightly lit where you may be bouncing big units into the ceiling to give the entire room a huge overall light level/ambience and then on top of that also lighting the subjects to give them some modeling and contrast ratio on their face so they stand out and 'pop' from the background. But then on a more serious drama etc you may forego the raising of the ambience and keep the background darker with only some practicals and then light the character himself in a more contrasty way for instance only from the side where half of their face is more in shadow etc. These are just general principles

 

[John Stamets]

It's such a broad confusion for me really Peter, but I might be giving myself too little credit. I just feel weak and not confident when dealing with lights to get the image I want, I guess mostly because I haven't used lights in over 2 years. In high school, we had this "TV Studio" class where I would constantly grib and gaffe using lights on the floor and on the ceiling grid. But that was a long time ago and I haven't gotten much practice since. I guess what I really need to do is just play around with lights enough to get that "cinema" feel which I know my films lack.

I know exactly what you are going through because every student of the arts has the epiphany. I went through the same thing. One day it all just "clicks". Michael, I have had the opportunity to work with or learn from some very talented designers over the years (My favorites being Ursula Belden and Tom Skelton). My background is theatrical design and direction (seven years of training and fifteen or so in the industry), but the concept translates. What is this art about? What is the right way to do it? What can I do with it? Will it be good? What am I missing here? Remember, form follows function. Figure out what you want the scene to look like, THEN worry about how to achieve it.


Here are a few guidelines I have found to be... fundamentals of sorts.

1: THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY. When that sinks in, you will get it. There are many ways to accomplish something. Whatever way you choose is up to you.
So then you will likely be left with the question, "so what do I do then"? The key concept is that this is ART not science. YOU as a designer comes up with an emotional translation of the story to a visual representation of that emotion.

2: LISTEN TO THE STORY. What is it telling you? Light? Dark? High Key? Low Key? Is it communicating enough visual information? Can the audience see what you want them to see? How are they seeing it? What are you NOT showing them? Is that intentional? No? well, read number 3...

3: WHY? The question that you MUST ask yourself for EVERYTHING is WHY?
Why is this area dark, why is this area lit, why did I use high key, why low key, why a kicker, why no kicker, why light the trees , why throw backgound into inky black, why, why, why. As a college student, Ursula reduced me nearly to tears one day after I had submitted a design simply by asking why, over and over and over. Her point, well taken, was we, as artists, do nothing by chance. There is always a reason that ties to the story. If you can answer why to everything, you will have a solid design. It may not work, but you will have done your job as a designer. Later, you can evaluate whether your artistic choices were successful (i.e. did they communicate to the audience your intentions). The corollary to this is HOW (how does it contribute to the story).

4: PRACTICE and EVALUATE. Work as much as you can. Experiment. I spent 6 hours in a light lab with a guest designer doing nothing but looking a mannequin head and some fabric swatches with two lights and about five hundred (or so it seemed) gels and we just swapped gels back and forth. Warm? Cool? swap. Now, Warm? Cool? Oh, the one that was warm is now cool. Oh, now the fabric that looked colorful now looks like a coffee stain. I learned a LOT about color that day. One show I designed, all the costumes were beautiful except for one which didn't fit into the color palette of the show. It looked like it was washed in coffee. I recognized it was because the color of the dress was missing from the spectrum of the design, just like we covered in that dark, little room. I was able to fix it then. I didn't choose the fixture or the color because it was right. I chose it because I wanted all the costumes to "pop". The lighting choices followed. The experimenting gave me the experience to understand the problem - the barrier to my vision.

5: LEARN FROM OTHERS. Do as much as you can as often as you can with as many people as you can. You can learn something from everyone. From an old stagehand named "Pops" (touch up scenery with colored hairspray if the actors are about to take the set - it won't bother them as much or stain the costumes with wet paint) to the likes of Tom Skelton (Color toners add missing light and shift the tone of existing light - you don't have to see the light for it to be there).

When my BTR1 (eventually) gets here. You and I will be in a similar world - I have not as much experience in lighting for narratives. So I will set it up and create a simple scene in my living room and start playing with lights - any I can get my hands on - to learn how the camera "sees". I'll make note of what works and what doesn't and store that away for future use. Hopefully, as a college student, you will have access to facilities to do a similar thing. A group of us would routinely sign out one of the small spaces and some gear just to practice.

One other thing - no one ever "gets there". Everyone keeps learning and exploring throughout their career. You just have more experience to draw on.
Don't worry so much - just keep doing it. If you have a vision for what you want something to look like then you already have everything you need. Your task then is to figure out how to achieve it.

-J

PS - sorry for the length - this is something I went through and a couple of paragraphs might have saved me some time!

 

[Michael Pyon]

Thank you for your lengthy response John, I appreciate it.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Pretty simple, there are two kinds of light, hard light and soft light. You get to choose.

 

[paulherrin]

in addition to experience/exploration, i'd recommend looking at art history. everyone has a unique style they tend towards, but it really helps if you can understand the whole spectrum of movements in visual art. that also includes thinking about shapes and symbols.

here's a good place to start... http://smarthistory.khanacademy.org
there's some stuff on MIT's opencourseware and probably edX as well.

also, i really like james turrell. bit of a prometheus character. http://www.pbs.org/art21/artists/james-turrell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihHd97Z8XfY