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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IR-CUT or HOT MIRROR for ND filters ?

John Stamets said:
The Formatt Hot mirror was not in the AbelCine video. Do you use the Hot Mirror stacked on the ND or does each ND have it's own coating? Also - does the Formatt exhibit that green tinge? I like Formatt's idea of broad spectrum attenuation, but felt they were limited by the lack of Hot Mirror in the shoot.
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Yep. I don't know why they didn't include them. Additionally, there are some really interesting filters that are more commonly used in astrophotography that we don't often consider.

The Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters I use are ND filters with Hot Mirrors "bipacked" together. The Formatt's do not exhibit the green tinge that certain IRNDs do. They also create a nice image to white balance and grade. Optically they are pretty good to me. I tested a lot of filters before purchasing these btw.

The only real downside to the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters is that you can't stack them. You can stack a normal ND in there if you want, but I try to minimize the filtration I put in front of lens to one or two filters at most.
 
Phil Holland said:
Yep. I don't know why they didn't include them. Additionally, there are some really interesting filters that are more commonly used in astrophotography that we don't often consider.

The Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters I use are ND filters with Hot Mirrors "bipacked" together. The Formatt's do not exhibit the green tinge that certain IRNDs do. They also create a nice image to white balance and grade. Optically they are pretty good to me. I tested a lot of filters before purchasing these btw.

The only real downside to the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters is that you can't stack them. You can stack a normal ND in there if you want, but I try to minimize the filtration I put in front of lens to one or two filters at most.
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That's weird, usually they try to add the level of IR filtration needed for each neutral density level. i've noticed IRND's getting extra green from stacking them too. Schneider insisted that each filter has the exact level required for each filter, I usually order up to 2.1 IRND Platinum for the Sony F65. The internal ND's for the Sony are given different levels of IR for each filter, but each filter is not exactly what it says... 1.2 is like a 1.3 and the 1.8 is almost more than a 1.9... who knows what happened there. but the filters inside F65 are Plantinum, just Platinum's don't perform so well on other cameras the same way.
 
Phil Holland said:
Yep. I don't know why they didn't include them. Additionally, there are some really interesting filters that are more commonly used in astrophotography that we don't often consider.

The Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters I use are ND filters with Hot Mirrors "bipacked" together. The Formatt's do not exhibit the green tinge that certain IRNDs do. They also create a nice image to white balance and grade. Optically they are pretty good to me. I tested a lot of filters before purchasing these btw.

The only real downside to the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combo filters is that you can't stack them. You can stack a normal ND in there if you want, but I try to minimize the filtration I put in front of lens to one or two filters at most.
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Have you noticed any color vignetting on the combos?
 
John Stamets said:
Have you noticed any color vignetting on the combos?
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Hi John I've notice in certain lighting conditions, particularly when a hard key light is coming into the lens, that you can see some color vignetting around 14mm. I don't see it at 18 or 20 though.
 
Phil Holland said:
Hi John I've notice in certain lighting conditions, particularly when a hard key light is coming into the lens, that you can see some color vignetting around 14mm. I don't see it at 18 or 20 though.
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Thanks Phil! I have a 18-50 RPZ on the way and wasn't sure on the wide end of things. I suppose it has as much to do with filter size and distance from the lens as well, since a Hot Mirror is a dichroic filter.
 
I've used them on the RPZ 17-50mm with great results. I didn't do whole ton of tests on the 17mm end of things, but the images were nice and I didn't see a cast. We weren't using crazy strong ND that day. .3 and .6 mostly.
 
The Formatt Hot Mirror filters were not included because they are an older technology, and Formatt was of the opinion that their newer ProStop IRND filters were appropriate for most shooting situations and worked well for the widest variety of cameras. I would tend to agree.

Remember that IR is heat. I can be seven stops over exposed on a freezing cold day and the transmitted IR through generic ND filters will be negligible. Or I can be just a couple of stops over on a very hot day and some black fabrics will appear bright purple. But that's an extreme case. For most situations I would say that the Formatt ProStops will do the job with no color cast and if you use another camera they will likely work as well.

I agree that if you want the ultimate IR protection for the RED cameras you need a Hot Mirror such as the Formatt or the Tiffen models, but you will likely also have to deal with some color cast from these filters.
 
I'll have to test out the ProStop IRNDs. They weren't around a year ago to check out. Next time I'm at AbelCine I'll have to have a look. Thanks Mitch.
 
Yes, they're brand new filters.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Okay, to my tests, the best I found were the Schneider Platinum IRND filters, by far better then the others, I also use them in combination of Clear Water Soft Graduate ND filters.
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I have them but they do not perform at all with the Epic if heat comes into play. It s terrible if you want to cut IR from a Tungsten light (when using NDs) for example. Good that we don t use often NDs when lit with tungsten.

Antoine Baumann did a great IR test.

I didn t test them in hot sun. Pretty cold now in Switzerland... :-)

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I have them but they do not perform at all with the Epic if heat comes into play. It s terrible if you want to cut IR from a Tungsten light (when using NDs) for example. Good that we don t use often NDs when lit with tungsten.

Antoine Baumann did a great IR test.

I didn t test them in hot sun. Pretty cold now in Switzerland... :-)

Pat
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I should have mentioned that I NEVER use Tungsten light Fixtures, and not only because of the Power Hungry lights that they are, and I try to respect our environment, but because i simply don't like that added warmth on to my images, which I try to capture as Pure as possible, I only use Daylight, mostly LED's and for strong far throw, HMI's, so for me they have been working just great.
 
Heat is heat. Shooting daylight on a hot day can make certain black fabrics turn purple, as well as other issues.
 
Do anybody tested those prostop Mitch Gross suggest as the best solution (if I'm not mistaken) for our beloved Mysterium?
 
Hi Alvise!
I hope all is good!
I used the ProStop but for the most challenging situations Hot Mirrors or HMIR ND Combo are the best IR filtering solution...
check out the Tiffens or the Formatts!
 
Alvise Tedesco said:
Do anybody tested those prostop Mitch Gross suggest as the best solution (if I'm not mistaken) for our beloved Mysterium?
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The best solution is the Tiffen Hot Mirror/IRND Combination Filters.

Followed by the Formatt Hot Mirror/ND Combination Filters.

Pancros land in here too, and I'll need to test them soon.


For Dragon, nobody knows anything until we can test it. The new IR OLPF design is said to improve the IR sensitivity or mitigate the need for IR filtration all together. We'll know soon!
 
Seems like the Formatt Hot Mirrors are no longer available from dealers. They do seem to list them available from their own website. I'll contact them on Monday to confirm what is available. I'm looking to do some tests with the Hoya ProNDs and I want to see them with and without a hot mirror in front.
 
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