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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shoulder Rig Idea

I got this funny email from Ethan Cooper about the rig photos above:

I saw your two hideous jpegs and once my eyes stopped burning I began to wonder what bits you have for your compact shoulder mount rig. You mention the AllStar shoulder pad but how are you attaching the battery plate to it? Would you mind giving me a rundown of everything you have in that first picture so I don't have to keep staring at it, it's really beginning to hurt my retinas.

-Thanks in advance,
Ethan
Click to expand...

Thought I would post here for everyone else who wants an affordable, comfortable, lightweight dovetail based mount system :)

- The WC battery slide is mounted directly to the AllStar "thin dovetail" ($170). It has many threaded holes, including a 1/4 20 threaded hole in the very back.
- The WC easy riser and 15mm LW rod attachment are mounted directly to the AllStar thin dovetail. To mount with two screws , there is a channel in the AllStar dovetail you can drill out a bit for a 1/4 20 screw, or a hole you can drill out a bit for another 3/8 screw.

You could also use the long easy riser plate and mount the battery slide to that... either way you get a camera so well counterbalanced you can almost let go of the handles with an MB-19 and follow focus out front.
 
Matt Uhry has a lovely one: low CG, easy on and off tripod, light weight, awesome molded handgrips...

He even asked everyone on REDUSER if they wanted to go in on manufacturing it! Not much interest at the time, maybe more now?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?58499-Bespoke-Hand-Held-Rig

uhry.jpg


Here's me holding it and grinning like an idiot:
56450394.jpg


Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Whatever happened to this module?

1311912656.jpg
 
That's nice, but if you're around 5'10 or so, it puts the lens height even lower, not great for looking at talent (unless you like nostrils). Also even with a Red brick on the back, it's pretty forward-heavy. Totally fine for rocking a little Canon lens, but add an S4 or Angeneiux zoom, clip on matte box, FF-4...

That's why I like my AllStar setup. Keeps the camera next to your head but right on top of your shoulder and your hands just drive, not carry the weight. "The steering wheel shouldn't hold up the whole car..."
 
I'm currently operating a TV show for Comedy Central and it's about 80 % handheld. It's an Alexa show so there's no need for complicated dovetail shoulder pad schemes but we all have our favorite hand grips. In my case it's these:

http://www.cameraaccessorysolutions.com/

These spider grips are simple, strong and super light.

With an Epic, we just undersling a battery mounted on an A/B Matrix plate off the back of 19mm rods and throw a house of power shoulder pad on. Simple, quick change over and balances beautifully. It doesn't sit high or add weight.

An even cooler battery solution that allows under and oversling in and instant is Wood-n C-meras battery slide.
 
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A for heavy lenses and B for the others;it can be lighter,the battery plate and the shoulder pad slide between the rods and can be adapted to many lenses weight;only the wide Red Primes are a bit front heavy.The optical axis is just under the eye.When the weight is on your chest,you suffer but when it is on your arms,you tremble.
And it's a mini tripod...
 
Jean Wallez said:
Yes,but.....

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That's exactly why I started this thread. Look at my pic I posted in the first post, and compare it to the above photo... I am looking for something simple, finding ways to go back to the film camera ergonomics... No bits and pieces, no enormously long rods behind the operator (you could kill someone with that rig above if you turn fast)

I think the best solution so far is the velcro shoulder pad below the Quad Battery Module. A separate module just for handheld would be best.

arri_alexaimg_0078.jpg
 
Mark Toia said:
Yeah.... what happend to this.
Click to expand...

Something of this sort needs to be done. Perhaps a bit longer to help with the balance - but again, I'm not too concerned if it ends up a bit front heavy, as the EPIC is really light to begin with. ONE PIECE.

1. Attach the module at the back.

2. Slap two rods in front (lightweight with the Assault Plate) carrying the handles (like the Shape Quick Handles, for example).

And voila, you're good to go with a lightweight, simple, film camera-like setup.

George
 
Bruce Allen said:
Matt Uhry has a lovely one: low CG, easy on and off tripod, light weight, awesome molded handgrips...

He even asked everyone on REDUSER if they wanted to go in on manufacturing it! Not much interest at the time, maybe more now?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?58499-Bespoke-Hand-Held-Rig

uhry.jpg


Thats a very early one Bruce. I ended up making 2 more versions after that, most people who try it love it.
It's best for short takes, it's very light low CG and compact mass. If you've ever flown in an aerobatic
plane of driven a race car you get the idea. What it's not good at is 10 minute takes - you're arms will burn.
Not an issue for me to me because I work in commercials and music videos and we seldom do long
takes, low cg and compact mass win for me.

Hand held rigs seem to be a personal thing, many of the ones I see are too complex, have too much distributed
mass in the wrong places. This is what I've ended up with:

hand-held-collage.jpg


I've actually got a machinist who will produce a small run of them
for people who have insisted on having their own.

I'm not interested in making a business out of hand held rigs...
too much work for too little $$


Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...
 
Im just curious why so many are seeing the shoulder pad behind the camera as the solution? Is it because you're to familiar with DSLR rigs? It's ok for a quick and dirty shot, but my guess is that a whole day,especially if you load on a master prime or a heavier lens on, will wear you out in no time. Plus low centre of gravity is not about having the camera as low as possible. It's about having the camera "on your shoulder" as low as possible in it's centre of gravity - not behind the camera, lower than the bottom of the camera - that's lower and off centre of gravity? Also by doing so the lens is not in eye line which is another feature that's important. At least for me and many other camera men.

I think you're better to find a solution where you attach a shoulder pad under the camera delivering as low centre of gravity as possible - as that is the closest to the centre you can get with lens etc in the front and a battery in the back.

Plus I have to say that RED probably scrapped that solution as they realised how, IMHO, useless it would be - after all they're slowly learning.
 
Fredrik Callinggard said:
Im just curious why so many are seeing the shoulder pad behind the camera as the solution? Is it because you're to familiar with DSLR rigs?
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Hi Fredrik - total respect for your work : ) and we're loving those lenses you sold us.

I wanted it to feel like a 435, Moviecam SL or an Aaton XTR - all of which I've shot 1000's of hand held hours with.

Camera on top of shoulder like on ET's rig made things a bit floppy, especially in the roll axis. No argument that it's the way to go for heavy lenses and long takes especially if you are not walking / running / shooting from a moving vehicle. .

I like the lens a bit below my eyes, lets me put the EVF in a less crowded area than at lens barrel height, lets me look over matte box with my left eye ( while right is at EVF ) to keep better awareness of whats happening on my right side.

Not trying to sell any idea, just trying to explain what works for me...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Hello guys. Of course everyone has a personal style of shooting. But in 99% of camera being front heavy result on a very short operating time before your arms shoulder and neck starts to burn out of pain.Anddepending on how fit you are and exersise of course this can be longer or shorter but in general its very short and if you are to work a full working day you will be asking for massage after for sure.
As for running shots a front heavy and unbalanced rig result of a more vibration and rotational errors.
The roll axis errors can be minimized in many ways while heavy walking on running, by having at the same time a verynicely over the shoulder balanced rig, the solution is not just a lower placed on the shoulder camera.
Many things add or take away those rotary errors, hadles , leverage, just about anything will add to this being wrongly adjusted.
There are rules that you can follow to minimize this but its not always in line with your personal style and I understand that.
But front heavy rigs will never be the solution to your problems, in fact more and more that have bought those rigs and using them with ful size cameras and lenses have learned their lesson and discovered pain sooner or later.
The most importand rule is to have a well balanced rig on your shoulder. Then with the correct adjustments and leverage compansation you can get a rig with minimum rotational errors and confortable to operate for hours.
Its just plain physics.
best regards
 
Matt Uhry said:
Hi Fredrik - total respect for your work : ) and we're loving those lenses you sold us.

I wanted it to feel like a 435, Moviecam SL or an Aaton XTR - all of which I've shot 1000's of hand held hours with.

Camera on top of shoulder like on ET's rig made things a bit floppy, especially in the roll axis. No argument that it's the way to go for heavy lenses and long takes especially if you are not walking / running / shooting from a moving vehicle. .

I like the lens a bit below my eyes, lets me put the EVF in a less crowded area than at lens barrel height, lets me look over matte box with my left eye ( while right is at EVF ) to keep better awareness of whats happening on my right side.

Not trying to sell any idea, just trying to explain what works for me...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...


Hi Matt,

If it works for you it works for you :). Not trying to piss on you. I'm just a little scared that people go for what they know more than physics? BTW Matt, I didn't do much movie cam shoots, but shot so many shoots on 435 and AATON that i can't remember how many and I can't say I agree with where centre of gravity on those two where :). Not in the way I attached the ARRI handheld rig anyway or how the AATON is built (it's clearly better ergonimically and was built for handheld). BUT for example the ARRICAM LT - the mag would normally "tip down" at the back - which also lead to a different centre of gravity - If on your rig. You had your battery attached lower end of the back on your shoulder pad I would agree it's closer - IMHO - just my thoughts.
 
Too bad the Meizler Module was not designed with all of the above in mind because, ultimately it's a camera design issue and all hand-held rigs that try to solve it end up being a compromise of some sort.
 
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