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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

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Milan Spasic said:
Well, for what it's worth your opinion also means zero to me. I wish you concentrate on expressing your views without criticizing others for expressing legitimate concerns of their own. Everybody's situation is different, I've been in this business for 20 years too and paid my dues.
The fact is you don't know how many people share Rob's opinion because people are simply afraid to speak out or they don't care about voicing their opinions here because they know they will be shut down and insulted by the likes of you and Tom Lowe. Just a minute ago I spoke to an early Red adopter and an Epic owner who didn't have a clue about the Epic price decrease. He was not pleased about the news to say the least. Not everybody hangs out here 24/7. Opening a poll here would mean nothing.

Most people who are excited about the news are Scarlet users and potential Epic buyers, and good for them, I mean that genuinely. For the rest of us, this news is not so rosy.
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Now, that you've already exorcised :D my zero evaluation (trace of my lecturer period, very likely) on your point, not exactly on your skills or professionalism of others you have no clue about. As well, on people I respect, you included. Once I have no idea who you are. It is your position, what is much much different. There's a difference regarding your personal attack in order to shut down a divergent voice, my reduser fellow. Quite probably because despite no pun intended on my side, your intention is very easy to catch. As well, Rob's. Even though, the gentleman approach of him, very distinct of yours as anyone can see.

I'd sincerely like to know how many you are. Because you two only speak of other people not present. Then, I must tell you that I represent other eight people with me. Plus all the others I know who would love to be RED customers and still can only dream 'cause of price range, so far. They end to buy other cameras brands and IMHO they are clients that RED loses.

You still owe me excuse 'cause I don't remember to have ever insulted whoever in these or other boards. I even invited you to quote me. And on Tom's defence too, I think you're overacting. Or launching a serious accusation against innocent people (on the courts, this has a name and is a crime in a lot of jurisdictions: defamation). Or maybe you have something to personally solve with him. How can I know? Or yet to try to get a way to victimize yourselves in order to give the strength that your position frankly doesn't have. Once more, I'm sorry to have to write again, but I guess you represent a very tiny minority over here. I'd like to see a poll, though. I already left the idea... why not dudes? ;-)
 
Jarred Land said:
Here we go with the early adopters getting screwed.

Most early adopters got their Epics for a considerable discount.. 1/3rd the current price of a current Epic price via our loyalty stages and they have had the luxury of charging market rental rates based on a camera value of three times of what they paid for the last year or so.. So its ok to charge producers a rate grossly over what you paid for the camera, but when it swings the other way it's not fair? rubbish.

It is the mid-adopters over the last year that didn't get the stage program discounts that are affected the most..
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I've said it a few times on here... How I would have loved to have been a 'stager' or even in on an Epic before the price increase. So in spite of being one of the guys 'affected the most' (bought just a few days after the price increase), I dig what RED is doing and I embrace the challenge and the potential for increase cooperation and creation.

If you've got your workflow down, your creative channel firing, and already absorbed the accessories and extra tools you need to make RED work best for you, you've got nothing to fear with a price change. Bring it.
 
Emanuel A. said:
Once more, I'm sorry to have to write again, but I guess you represent a very tiny minority over here.
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Yes, a tiny minority of people who dare or bother to post here, you are right.

Tom Lowe has a long history of insulting people for no other reason but expressing their opinions which were in no way directed at him. This goes long before he became a moderator.

I have nothing to apologize for, 5% figure you made up is just that, a made up figure. If you can provide a proof of your claim I will be willing to apologize.
 
Paul Provost said:
Has it gotten any cheaper to make a red rocket? I mean come on, it's a pcie card. One slot. $5k? Really? Design hasn't changed in years.
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The Rocket doesn't feel like a product directly manufactured by RED, so they have to deal with multi-year license agreements and stuff, just like anyone else. I'm sure if their costs dropped via suppliers, the card cost would drop.
 
Milan Spasic said:
Yes, a tiny minority of people who dare or bother to post here, you are right.

Tom Lowe has a long history of insulting people for no other reason but expressing their opinions which were in no way directed at him. This goes long before he became a moderator.

I have nothing to apologize for, 5% figure you made up is just that, a made up figure. If you can provide a proof of your claim I will be willing to apologize.
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You're missing the point. I ask for your apologies 'cause you wrote that me and Tom, we had insulted people here (as far as Tom, you even add substantial more on your accusation). I can't speak on behalf of Tom 'cause he didn't ask me, even if I think he didn't insult nobody here. Or in any other post I had read from him, despite the style of his own. But I can speak for me. And I know this is not true. It is you who should prove your claim. I invited you to quote me. You have zero of evidence.

And seeing on reduser character assassination of a moderator or a contributor such as Tom, is beyond me.

On the 5% mark, I wrote first that I had my doubts on a higher number. And I always use the verbs 'to think', 'to guess', etc so... Although, I stand my impression. I think you are completely desperate, 'cause you represent a very small share of RED customers, in my opinion. Granted the posts along the thread. As well, the RED clientele and other potential clients I've personally met every day in the real world out there.
 
Jarred Land said:
Ironically this is because of you guys... We wouldn't be able to recoup investments if you guys didn't buy our stuff.. So we really should be thanking you... Which I guess is exactly what we are doing here.
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It is about the best camera, sensor, processor, modularity and software. If they get it they will only get left behind a little more, if they don't it is over; because Red is here to get on top, and that is what they are doing.

15.5+ stops of DR at 2000ISO in 6k with real time native post, for nothing. And REDCODE.
 
Emanuel A. said:
You're missing the point. I ask apologize because you wrote that me and Tom, we insult people here. I can't speak on behalf of Tom 'cause he didn't ask me, even if I think he didn't insult nobody. But I can speak for me. And I know this is not true. It is you who should prove your claim. I invited you to quote me. You have zero of evidence.

And seeing on reduser character assassination of a moderator or a member such as Tom, is beyond me.

On the 5% mark, I wrote first that I had my doubts on a higher number. And I always use the verbs 'to think', 'to guess', etc so...
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I'm sorry, calling professional people "crybabies" because they make him "sick", is neither professional nor moderator like. And it's not the first time either.
True, you've never said anything like that but you like to take Tom's defense in this thread.

Lastly, why can't you just except that not everybody comes from the same place as you on this topic and move on?
We've heard what you think, it would be nice to let others express their opinion without cross-examination or trying to shut them up.
 
Milan Spasic said:
I'm sorry, calling professional people "crybabies" because they make him "sick", is neither professional nor moderator like. And it's not the first time either.
True, you've never said anything like that but you like to take Tom's defense in this thread.

Lastly, why can't you just except that not everybody comes from the same place as you on this topic and move on?
We've heard what you think, it would be nice to let others express their opinion without cross-examination or trying to shut them up.
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Well, I bet Rob has the highest score in this thread :D before you started ;) And about Tom, we can disagree when happens. But after many years of reduser, Tom has become a friendly mate on these pages. On the other hand, I dislike to see character assassination anywhere. Moreover, Tom deserves to be defended by his peers. I do nothing but only my obligation. I am not used to run when I see people to be attacked. Especially people that I know and who I have a history with.
 
Milan, you and Rob are commended for expressing your opinion. I agree that we need to keep the debate civil and try to avoid insults (as sometimes our emotions simply take the best of us). I don't know Tom nor his history on Reduser but I also haven't seen many ruthless postings by him either. I think we are all passionate about this company and the products they create and we own...this is why we even bother to speak up.

Still, so far, we haven't heard from many that agree with the opinion that "Price Lowering would HURT" the rental industry or Red owners. Sure your views aren't alone but without others jumping in to expressing their opinion, the greater contributors on this thread so far seem to oppose the thought.

Keep in mind that a good company would be innovating and "skate to where the puck is going not where it is". Epic can't be the last model at a premium for years. It needs to keep refreshing and or adjusting the price. Apple refreshes their macs every year (well okay, except for the Mac Pro which I'm sure is gonna be revolutionary next year). Apple also have lowered price on models in the past as well. Epic is the flagship but it too can't sit still. I bet Red has some pretty big plans coming in the near future.

Red isn't as "Attention Deficit" as Sony when releasing new models and new lines that overlap and leapfrog each other...nor is Red like Canon that takes years to come out with the Canon 5D mkIII and miss the boat on their userbase and what they were asking and wanting.

Epic pricing and newer versions will continue and that simply means your investment will continue to depreciate. Sure you won't like it (as no one really does) but like I and many believe, the overall big picture will benefit RED, the users, the community, the third party developers, and the industry. We can't sit still.

In the end, we all have our opinions and there is no real right or wrong answer.
 
Sometimes I wonder if people really just wants threads to be shut down.

My guess is RED foresaw the complaints, kinda slightly.
After all, Jarred et all have been around here all along.

And I guess they don't really mind.

R1s price was inflated through the stages/epic program, which gave those who got on early an incredible security to their investment in something that is basically a piece of electronics that could be described as a smart lens-mount.


Capitalazion is many thing. Actually. Getting the images you want, is imho the most important.

But my main point is:
If we do want the discussion open, discuss RED, and don't insult eachother. It is just noise whichever way you put it.

Cheers

G
 
Come on now... I cannot believe the level of ignorance I see in this thread. Ignorance of Moore's law at it's worst. And even Moore's law is being debated to start accelerating rather then being a constant.

The truth here is that you would never buy a computer that is three years old for the same price as a new modell. Technology evolve, technology drop in price all the time and the time you start complaining about it because you bought some expensive hardware is the time you forget the rational you.

I've never heard someone who bought inexpensive hardware to complain when new models arrive. How many people here complain about Iphone 4 dropping in price? Anyone? Someone?
No, didn't think so. The thing is that if you are to buy expensive hardware like the Epic, you damn straight need to have a reason for it. It would serve a purpose, you need it to tripple your income and the investment should be just that, an investment.

If you, like me, don't film as much as you like to do, you sure as hell can't buy an expensive camera and think that is all you need to get going. If you run around complaining about rental prices, that your 7D or 5D isn't good enough and that you shoot every single day and at the end of each day you are sad that you can't get more out of your now overused equipment, then I think Epic might be something for you and then you wouldn't give a shit about future price drops.

You want to save the cake and eat it... no, you have the cake, want to eat it and no one else can have any other cake like the one you have.

Technology always drop in price, technology is the worst possible investment you can EVER make if you do not earn enough money that it "buys itself". That is the truth and the ignorance among a few here, while I do understand the frustration (I have bought stuff that got dropped directly after) you can't complain about it because it's just ignorant of how the world works.

But if you still want to complain, why don't you buy an Alexa? or a Canon? They seem to sell their camera with 1080p for a much higher price and I haven't heard them drop the price much. Then you will have month or years old equipment for the same price as when they were new on the market... yay!
 
What about a positive aspect on this issue: The insurance fees of our Epics will also be lower, and this should be a positive thing for everybody --unless thre is somebody in the forum running a insurance company. ;-)
 
Paul Provost said:
Has it gotten any cheaper to make a red rocket? I mean come on, it's a pcie card. One slot. $5k? Really? Design hasn't changed in years.
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Maybe not enough is purchased to warrant up drop in price?
 
Are people seriously upset that Red is going to lower their prices? WTF? I'm an owner who rents gear too... you know what that means? I can now afford even more gear. I win. What the heck are people complaining about? Everyone is so damn sensitive. Stop it. Red, don't defend yourself for being awesome... just be awesome like you do best.
 
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