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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Prices of SSD Cards

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Trevor Meeks said:
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Yikes, I apologize for asking in the forum for questions then.... I'm not a Senior Member, as you can see so, to me being brand new to this, it's a valid question and everyone's been beyond cool about prior questions -- until now. I scrolled through 15 pages under this forum heading and didn't see "this shit" being talked about, nor was it a 'sticky' topic.
 
Jason Honeycutt said:
Yikes, I apologize for asking in the forum for questions then.... I'm not a Senior Member, as you can see so, to me being brand new to this, it's a valid question and everyone's been beyond cool about prior questions -- until now. I scrolled through 15 pages under this forum heading and didn't see "this shit" being talked about, nor was it a 'sticky' topic.
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SEARCH helps quite a bit... :yesnod:

And this doesn't need to be a sticky topic. No disrespect meant here, but I don't walk into a high-end restaurant and ask them to explain to me why their burger costs more than a Big Mac®
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Really, if you can't afford 3-4 64G SSDs, you can't afford a Scarlet. Sad but true.
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Love this statement. Really. I wonder if all those third parties vendors weren't making products for us RED owners, I bet you would be scratching your head.
No choice to buy RED products for your Epic/Scarlet. You wouldn't have some words or questions; I imagine you would.

I think most Scarlet and some Epic owners (Epic folks can afford this SSD prices, great - live on 512 Turbo cards) would like to have a cheaper solution say MT module (ProReS/DNAxa) or those famous but mystery 32Gb or now 50gb SSD cards!?! Not all of us need 4/5K raw.

They cater to Epic cinema users, fine but how about the thousands upon thousands of Scarlet owners that would like to have cheaper media.
I applaud RED for dropping the price of the SSD media so far in the past months. We all thank you, but owners are upset because of the high price comparing to standard SSD media out there. I understand that RED has made it impossible to use off the shelf SSD cards, fine. All I'm whining about, as some will call it...if they offered these 32gb cards back in April like promised? or reduce the price of SSD media to a point that most can afford - there is no other media solution available made by RED to record REDcode or any other format.

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot for not making these available. Lost revenue. I'm not RED nor a business person so I can only speculate.

Cheaper prices increases purchasing volume = Profit
 
I agree with jason, if these are standard off the shelf SSD's then I find it hard to justify a firmware driving up the price as much as they do. Especially for a bulk item. It's not as drastic as Canon 1Dx to C 4K firmware. If Jim said we lost money on all stage II cameras and we're evening it out, then I'd understand more. I hope as R&D cost are made back that they continue to lower the price. It does not make logical sense that a scarlet is the price of two 512 cards. It would be nice to Add a few more SSD's
 
A sony f900 is the price of two decks a arri 435 is cheaper than the footage after 30days shooting ;)
 
There's nothing fancy about RED SSD - it's standard off the shelf Toshiba SSD, costs maybe... guessing... $500 for 256GB in quantity?

What's special, and is responsible for the price, is...

- The firmware, which is (I presumed) optimised for uninterrupted throughput, zero dropped frames; very much custom written for the job.
- The quality control... I don't know how RED test them but it must be pretty damn thorough with a fair reject rate
- The engineering of the case
- recoup development of all the above
- support and warranty
- profit

That's all as I figure it out - just my personal opinion. But anyone telling you the SSD is all custom electronics hand-fabricated by specialists with years of experience and training (like the way they made core memory 40 years ago!) doesn't know what they're talking about. If it were built like that it would be even pricier.

I'm still working on the 'Chinese Army' alternative: an array of standard SSD, tolerant of failures and lower-performance components, rather than a single custom high-end job (which is the way RED went, and about the only way TO go for a small form factor).

Mike
 
Just do what I did, buy a blackmagic hyperdeck shuttle. Use your 2.5" drives and record for hours.

You can get 5 hours of record time for the price of one 64GB card. Save RAW for when you need it.
 
Ahh, but is it? Maybe Red have a deal to take all the best ones off the top at a huge premium, meaning by definition every other commercially available Toshiba is not up to the task? I used to work in QA, there is no such thing as off the shelf these days. Look at a Scarlet, it is essentially an EPIC that couldn't meet the QA spec when tested. Talk about a price difference!

We should not assume anything here. Red have no interest in ripping us off. I have tremendous faith and have for the last 5 years. So much so that I don't even need to ask. If they say they cost this much, that's the truth.

Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
There's nothing fancy about RED SSD - it's standard off the shelf Toshiba SSD, costs maybe... guessing... $500 for 256GB in quantity?


Mike
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jimhare said:
Ahh, but is it? Maybe Red have a deal to take all the best ones off the top at a huge premium, meaning by definition every other commercially available Toshiba is not up to the task? I used to work in QA, there is no such thing as off the shelf these days. Look at a Scarlet, it is essentially an EPIC that couldn't meet the QA spec when tested. Talk about a price difference!

We should not assume anything here. Red have no interest in ripping us off. I have tremendous faith and have for the last 5 years. So much so that I don't even need to ask. If they say they cost this much, that's the truth.
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Very well put.
 
The only reason I can figure for the SSD mags being so expensive is that they use SLC NAND flash. It has an order of magnitude more P/E cycles before wearing out, but is consequently more expensive. In general, too, it's not nearly as fast as MLC NAND.
 
Petri Teittinen said:
Simply not true. 64, 128 and 256GB REDMAGs are Toshiba's 3rd generation MLC Micro SATA modules that Toshiba has specced at 220MB/s for sequential reads and 180MB/s for sequential writes. Current consumer SSDs are much faster.
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Confirmed.



BTW: Convergent Design sells 1.8" SSD's for their Gemini 4:4:4 Recorder.

512GB $1500

256GB $750

In my own testing the Convergent Design SSD's were faster than the RedMags...
 
Adrian, I really dont get what you are trying to accomplish here at Reduser.
 
Adrian Jebef said:
Confirmed.



BTW: Convergent Design sells 1.8" SSD's for their Gemini 4:4:4 Recorder.

512GB $1500

256GB $750

In my own testing the Convergent Design SSD's were faster than the RedMags...
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Can you please share your testing method. Charts showing data results would be helpful as well. The problem with the results I imagine would be the inability to test the media in the opposing recording mechanism. In other words you can't test the RED SSDs in the Gemini and you can't test the CD SSDs in the RED. Therefore there's probably no way to say with certainty what impact the two speeds have on the actual recording process. Obviously there are minimum write speeds required but it's the optimization that is most likely having the biggest impact on each system's ability to record to that card with precision.
 
And as a few have pointed out -- it is what it is. And it's not going to change radically.

I think it's fairly safe to assume this ia a "profit point" for Red, let's even say it's a high end one. But there are some advantages to the "little guy" (me being one) in it being the media and not the camera.

You can develop work-arounds, getting by with 2 SSDs (even 1) -- or renting or sharing or borrowing. And recording to external recorders that are as inexpensive as the media when you don't require the raw. So, in an imperfect world where companies have to prosper, perhaps it is not the worst compromise for both company and customer.

Think of it as 35mm film you get to use over and over. That never gets f***ed-up in the lab. Oh, sorry, you weren't born yet! Yeah, and it was heavy. Really heavy. And you had to load it in a changing bag, and it could get scratched... etc
 
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