Epic TV Commercial- Broadcaster Issue, need help

[Sergio Perez]

Hi all,

I shot a TVC recently and a high profile international broadcaster presented me with a problem that left me scratching my head. The problem was as follow, please, if any of you had similar problems do share because I need this solved as soon as possible.

I shot the TVC in 2:35:1. I intended the TVC to be slightly letterboxed in native 16:9, so shot with side safe margins (16:9) in check. All is well in the channels that are accepting the HDCAm, but one broadcaster came with a very peculiar answer: they only received SD (understandable) and 4:3 (its a big, big international network, I'm not naming it here, but Global brand which made me find this a bit strange, thinking "no problem, its going to look more letterboxed in 4:3 and will look correct in 16:9"). What made me concerned was that they told me they where going to add BLACK BARS on the LEFT AND RIGHT of the frame when it was displayed in a 16:9 TV. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I would understand if this happened if there was a blow up of the SD picture to HD, but what is going on here? They said that if we supplied a 16:9 tape to them, it would cut the sides in regular TV's and and appear correct in 16:9 TVs... The funny thing is, its my second year shooting 2:35:1 and its the first year I'm having this problem. What is going on and what should I say the broadcaster? There's a discussion currently going with my post house and the broadcaster but I really want to know what's going on and what can be done. Again, this is no local broadcaster, but a big international one, so this is all the more puzzling to me.

Thank you and I didn't know where to post this but since it is partially shot on Epic (and I plan to share it here later), I would as well post it and see if anyone can help??

Cheers,

Sergio

 

[Mike Garrick]

What they appear to be saying is this station broadcasts in SD 4 x 3...... like wow do they still do that.

Anyway if you letterbox your image so the sides of your existing 16 x 9 screen fill the sides of the 4 x 3 area you will get a postage stamp effect (black border all the way around ) when viewed on 16 x 9 screens. Which obviously the majority of the viewing audience own even though they are watching it on this 4 x 3 network & it will look pretty craptacular.

The way to solve this is to create a specific 4 x 3 version that fills the vision area from top to bottom & side to side so when this is viewed on 16 x 9 sets watching a 4 x 3 signal you will just have black either side of the screen. Like old TV shows and not the horrible "postage stamp effect". In other words, you need to enlarge your image so it fills a 4 x 3 screen top & bottom whilst cropping out the sides. Unfortunately there is no other choice.

Alternately the network could update there license & start broadcasting 16 x 9 : )

 

[James McLellan]

Hmm. Don't think that will work Mike. Consider that many consumers have their sets pre-set to a middle of the road wide zoom effect to handle 4:3 and 16:9 content. What I mean is for those consumers that watch this channel on 16:9 sets they always have the black bars right and left. They will likely have their sets pre-set to wide zoom or something odd to compensate. You might consider finding out what the most common method for black bars to be removed by consumers and try to adjust to that if it doesn't look too wonky compared to the original. Otherwise I might say you are stuck with postage stamp.

 

[Matthew Gellert]

This is actually very common. When delivering spots we always include an SD version with the image properly letterboxed within 4:3 space. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop broadcasters from using the HD master and center punching and airing it SD. Most commercial media outlets will warn you that your HD master better be center cut safe, just for this reason.
Its especially ironic when this post is on a site with so much discussion about the inadequacies of 1080 HD and a LOT of broadcasters haven't left their SD workflow behind.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I think the broadcaster should worry not you... But if you want to please them you need to sit down and make a full frame 4:3 version...

 

[Mike Harrington]

ya...
do whatever it takes to please the customer...
unfortunately it may mean pan&scan for a 4x3 output

 

[Dmitry Burenok]

Always huge pain in the ass - dealing with distribution networks. They still making big buks but don't want to go any farther than late 90s. Most of them are pretty comfy in the stone age of interlaced 29.97 720*486 HELL

In a God sake WHO ARE WATCHING CCRT's these days? It is all progressive LCD TV's worldwide! Everywhere. Most of them 16*9 already!

 

[Joe Minuni]

If there is no budget to do both 16x9 HD and 4:3 versions , we always end up to make sure the spot was centercut safe on the HD version so they can cut it for SD broadcast.

One station told us that in their market, still 40-50% of their viewers use 4:3 aspect as 2nd or 3rd sets in the house, so they want to make sure ALL of their viewers have a quality experience

 

[Greg M]

Center Cutting is the demon of US Broadcasting. It totally sucks, but you must account for it or your spots will look like crap. In the U.S. it is still necessary to deliver both options:
1- HD
2- SD

Also all your HD content MUST be center cut safe.

Hopefully one day, the true identity of the guy who created center cutting will be revealed and we will be allowed to flog him in the public square.

 

[Mike Garrick]

I'd stand in line for that ......but we cant forget the Guy who decided that for 16 x 9 broadcast, all text graphics must be positioned within 4 x 3 TV safe on a 16 x9 image.

 

[Greg M]

I'd stand in line for that ......but we cant forget the Guy who decided that for 16 x 9 broadcast, all text graphics must be positioned within 4 x 3 TV safe on a 16 x9 image.

That is center-cut safe. all of your action must also conform to this.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Apologies translation differences in terminology between countries.

ARHHH .....so it is the same guy then!!! In which case flogging isn't enough maybe tar & feathering & then flogging & not in a public square but TV studio with a live feed to everyone who has suffered such injustice. Of course in 16 x 9 with the victim fully positioned within "centre cut" and the flogger standing outside of 4 x 3 tv safe.

 

[Greg M]

ARHHH .....so it is the same guy then!!! In which case flogging isn't enough maybe tar & feathering & then flogging & not in a public square but TV studio with a live feed to everyone who has suffered such injustice. Of course in 16 x 9 with the victim fully positioned within "centre cut" and the flogger standing outside of 4 x 3 tv safe.

yes, nice extra touch.