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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Framing Controls - cropping and whatnot

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Dillon Brown

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Hello all!

I'm trying to get my head around the Framing Controls in RedCine-X Pro but unfortunately am a bit confused at the way these work. I've looked in the PDF manual but it doesn't seem to help much so perhaps I'm just not thinking about the process of cropping correctly. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm very perplexed.

What I want to do is take 4096x2160 1.90:1 aspect ratio footage and transcode it to 1920x1080 ProRes HQ files with the edges cropped off to make it 16:9 aspect ratio without the bars on the top and bottom. I've attempted to modify the Meta framing preset to Fit Height with Center Crop and click Apply to: Bin (all clips) where my footage is in RedCine-X but it doesn't crop it. I've outlined my questions below in an attempt to figure these Framing Controls out.

- How would I best go about cropping the footage correctly to export to 16:9 aspect ratio ProRes files?
- Can the Meta preset be modified or is this locked to the footage (is this a preset made in-camera while shooting?)
- If the Meta preset is locked do I need to make a new preset to modify the Framing Control box? Or can I just use the Framing Controls and click the Apply button for all the clips in the bin?
- Do the Framing Controls look at the selected Export preset or are these completely independent?
- Can you edit Framing Presets once you make them?
- What are the differences between the Crop settings - No Crop, Center Crop, Custom, Frame Guide? (if No Crop is selected but the Fit Height/Width is selected how does this work? Does it still crop the footage?)
- Why is the Source Resolution relevant and why would you change this?
- Why does the Lock Aspect Ratio center crop the footage? Wouldn't it just crop the footage relevant to the aspect ratio of the full size? Or is this why changing Source Resolution is an option?


It looks like there's so much control but I have no clue how to properly go about doing it. I've tried a ton of ways to crop the footage but it always comes out with bars on it. Thanks so much!

- Dillon
 
I've had a lot of problems with this as well. Any presets I make only work once and then seem to be useless after that. It's a simple process but often doesn't work or works unexpectedly. It's definitely a frustrating implementation for me on Snow Leopard on the latest REDCINE-X Pro
 
Hi Dillon,

This is a pretty simply case. I'll try and answer your questions.

Basically, just set the framing tool with a locked aspect ratio 16:9, center crop, and expand the crop box until it is the full height of the image in the viewer. Leave the source resolution as it is. This will give the results you want.

No, the meta preset can not be modified. Meta should be the frame guides when set on camera.

No, you do not need to create a framing preset every time you want to apply framing to a clip, only if you want to apply it quickly to many clips. If you edit the framing tool for a particular clip those settings
will be saved to the clips RMD file (provided auto save RMD is enabled).

The framing tool is completely independent of any export presets you make. However, obviously your output resolution plays a big part in how things are scaled/cropped.

Yes, you can edit framing presets once made. Just select it, then hit the refresh button below.

The differences should be self explanatory I hope :) No crop means no crop, but yes fit is still applied in this case. For example, a fit width 2x on a 4096 x 2160 into a 1920 x 1080 is going to squeeze the image vertically (try it).
Center mode will keep the box centered for you when editing, and custom will let arbitrary movement in each dimension. Frame Guide is camera metadata.

Source resolution isn't really relevant in this case. Leave it at the clips resolution (it will default to the source res of the clip currently being edited). When you save a preset, don't try and apply a preset of one source resolution to clips of different source resolution.

It doesn't -- you can be in custom mode and have aspect locked.

Hope this helps.

David
 
Justin,

It's possible you have found a bug .. if you can reproduce it let us know at redcinex at red dot com.

Thanks!
David
 
David Ibbitson said:
When you save a preset, don't try and apply a preset of one source resolution to clips of different source resolution.
Click to expand...
This I think is silly. Why not also have an option to choose an aspect ratio and a tick box with "crop to fit aspect"? Then you could use the same setting to crop to whatever aspect you want from whatever resolution the source is. This would make things a lot simpler and faster for many cases and you could still leave in the advanced controls for when they're needed.
 
Last edited:
Sorry this rather a question than a reply. I am a RED user based in Abu Dhabi. I need to crop the edges of some files when transcoding to Full HD. I am working with REDCINE-X, have tried all the settings on the framing tab, center crop, custom, frame guide, but the resulting image is kind of softer than the "uncropped" transcoded one. Can someone help please. I am transcoding to PRO RES HQ. Original files are 4K 16:9.
What am I doing wrong?

:banghead::banghead:

Thanks in advance

Richard
 
Hi. I am working on both Final Cut 7 and Avid 5. Do you mean not cropping in RCX and instead play with the scale effect on either FCP or Avid? Thanks! Do you shoot underwater with the RED? I haven't dared yet, although we do have access to a housing box.
 
Gah, facing this exact same issue. I have 5k 2:1 and 2.4:1 that I need to out put as 16x9 1080p files. What I WANT to do is this:
-Set Aspect Ratio to 16x9 and watch it snap in (this doesnt work, you have to enable crop first)
-Visually move the red rectangle (this doesnt work)

Is there a better way?
 
and lock aspect ratio doesnt work, as soon as I start dragging those red lines it lets me completely destroy the 16x9 aspect ratio. Help! I just want to export my 5k 2:1 as 16x9 using the crop I decide, this is way more difficult than it should be
 
Shawn Nelson said:
and lock aspect ratio doesnt work, as soon as I start dragging those red lines it lets me completely destroy the 16x9 aspect ratio. Help! I just want to export my 5k 2:1 as 16x9 using the crop I decide, this is way more difficult than it should be
Click to expand...

I don't get the bug you are experiencing with aspect lock.
 
I'm beyond frustrated with Redcine X... yes, it's free, but man, it's so clunky and not intuitive. As the Redteam member said on this thread, you can crop it but it has nothing to do with the output!? How does that make ANY sense? Isn't that the point of cropping... so I can output a file with those dimensions? What's the thinking then... so, you can put the crop lines on and, well, just 'imagine' what your image could look like if this software was easy to use.

It's just all such an archaic process which I don't understand. You have your bunch of clips... you can tweak the colors and all of that, which is great... but then you have do decide to 'apply' the look - that I was just working on? Yeah, obviously, 'apply' it. Then you have a sequence, for some reason... and then a timeline. WTF is the difference? It's just clunky all around.

It should be simple, like Sorenson's batch tree. You make your preset or look... you drag the clips into that and 'export'... bam, new clips. This software is awful and it just takes waaaaaay too long to process each clip so I just AMA it in Avid, slap on my look and go from there. I just wish I could reference 4K and not 1080p so I can zoom into a 4K image there without losing quality.

Please, please, please Redteam... check out Sorenson Squeeze's process and copy that verbatim. It's the most efficient way of doing this. We make our sequences and timelines in Avid or FCP... we don't need to do it in telecine.
 
I notice that you can crop and output QT (DNxHD) files... but not create new R3D files with a crop. Right now, I'm outputting a DNxHD QT file with the crop but it's taking one HOUR and fifteen minutes... for a FIVE minute clip!? C'mon. That's not practical in any way. My computer is fully-spec'ed out too.
 
Jason,

I never said it has nothing to do with output, it has everything to do with output. A crop directly affects how an image will appear in the desired output resolution. True, we don't yet have a mode where you can preview exactly how it will look pre export.

Any color correction changes you make will be applied directly to whatever clip you have in the Viewer. No "Apply" necessary. You only "Apply" a look when working with look presets and such.

Thanks for the feedback -- we take all suggestions into consideration. You might want to take a look at some of our workflow videos, maybe it will help you get a better feel for RCX. http://www.red.com/learn/workflow

~ David
 
Shawn Nelson said:
and lock aspect ratio doesnt work, as soon as I start dragging those red lines it lets me completely destroy the 16x9 aspect ratio. Help! I just want to export my 5k 2:1 as 16x9 using the crop I decide, this is way more difficult than it should be
Click to expand...

When you set it up, hold CTRL (or CMD on a Mac) and then you can move your box without losing it. Outputting it is a different batch of 'fun' though :)
 
Ok, I am reading this thread today. The answears are from 2012 and RCX is still doing the same issue. I want to export 6K (6144x3160) to 4K (4096 x 2160) into ProRes 4.2.2 HQ and I can not find a way to do that. The Framing function seems to be screewed up. I Scale it to 5991 x 3160 and try to export it to 4K. But, it still has the black bars. Will this be working one day?
 
Klaus,

It's adding the black bars at the top and bottom because the export preset is set to export at 6144x3160, the clip size. Clip size is the default setting for the output size. Since you have a crop applied, it's only getting enough pixels to fill 5991x3160. Therefore, it adds ~76 pixels at both the top and bottom of the image to fill out the image to the full clip size requested in the preset.

To fix this, edit your export preset. On the main "Format" page, in the Output Resolution section, select "Cropped Size" from the drop down combo box.
 
"Edit your export preset. On the main "Format" page, in the Output Resolution section, select "Cropped Size" from the drop down combo box."

This I think quite a few missed. :)
 
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