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Shooting a DOME project with EPIC. Which lens to use?

Per von Koch

Per von Koch

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Hi,

I'm gonna do some tests for a Dome movie and I need a fisheye lens that captures a 180 degree field of view. I know that Zeiss and Sigma has some but I like to know if someone has had any experience using 180 degree lenses with Epic.

Please tell :)
 
Sigma 4.8 mm FE, Epic with EF mount @ 4K you should get full circle image in black background

Cheers

David
 
This canon 8-15mm f/4 fisheye zoom lens looks very promising for shooting with Epic. I haven't tested it myself, but the sample images I've seen from it look promising. I don't know if the Epic Canon mount will control it or not. The ability to zoom will allow you to select the right focal length for the sensor size (4k, 5k etc) you will be using on your epic. I've been shooting stills with the Nikon 10.5 f/2.8 DX fisheye lens and it has a little too much CA and purple fringing (for stills its fairly easy to remove so its not that big a deal for me).

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_8_15mm_f_4l_fisheye_usm
 
Canon 8-15mm is great if you don't mind the top and bottom cut off. Even at 5K there is slight crop and will not display full circle. Easy to get full circle in a 35mm digital still sensor but not Super 35mm in the Epic.

Dome projection will need full circle unless it is slightly tilted from the horizontal plane and target point for the projection. Just hire both lens to try out and see which best fit your type of dome shoot.

I have used both for this type of shoot before. You may find that the resolution after cropping is better at 4K.

Cheers

David
 
I just checked and the Sigma seems to be a bit blurry on the edges. Isn't there anyone with a PL mount that costs a fortune? Cheap is good of course but I recall something that Zeiss had made that I saw at IBC that was supposed to be a 180 degree lens.
 
You could try the Canon Fisheye FD 7.5mm f5.6 (as it is a FD you need to get one coverted to EF and check if the rear lens element is not too far into the Epic Brain). Not hard to find FD lens as no one really use them at this focal length.

A better but more expensive alternative is the Nikon Fisheye Nikkor 8mm f2.8.

There is one for sale in ebay with a Century Optic PL to Nikon 1.4x adapter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-N...mera_Lenses&hash=item3cc904b7ff#ht_500wt_1413

These lenses are for 35mm film so not sure if full circle could fit inside the S35 sensor at 5K. I would love to know.

Can you show a frame grab as to how blurry the sigma lens is?

cheers
David
 
Peter, kolla med Björn på syndicate.se... Har för mig de har en Sunex glugg som skulle passa dig. De har säkert en del material och tips också.
 
Thanks Danai and David.

David, I haven't really seen the Sigma lens in action, it's jut what I heard that it's not optimal when shooting for dome. I'm gonna try it though.

Peter: Tack för tipset!
 
Well, the lens is not much your issue....it's sensor size. The Epic will not cover a DOME or Planatarium theater screen. In post it will have to be blown up on the height. Just not a large enough sensor to cover it at moment and i don't believe Dragon will cover it either.
 
Johnny Friday said:
Well, the lens is not much your issue....it's sensor size. The Epic will not cover a DOME or Planatarium theater screen. In post it will have to be blown up on the height. Just not a large enough sensor to cover it at moment and i don't believe Dragon will cover it either.
Click to expand...

Ditto -I shot a series of tests for DOME producers, EXT DAY, with all the potential circular fisheye lenses including the mighty 6mm.
The images did not hold up for dome projection...yet :-)
 

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Hmmm....

Only way you're going to beat EPIC for shooting dome photography is to go film. You can get the full circular fisheye image within the EPIC 5K frame using a couple different fisheye lenses on the market like the Sigma 4mm. It's relatively sharp in the middle -- comparable to the Schneider 6mm -- and fits within the 2700pixel frame height of 5KFF. That's better than any other single-camera digital solution out there. And usable resolution is still better than film in most cases. Where you would gain the advantage with film is to shoot 4-perf S35, then you have almost an extra 3mm of frame height to work with over EPIC. Best bet overall is to probably shoot a 10~16mm fisheye lens on 65/70mm. But that is not too conducive to most dome shooting projects. Very few would have the budget.

So, I'll maintain that EPIC is currently one of the best tools for shooting for dome projection. If you need better, then a dual-camera rig is probably the way to go. In the case of multiple cameras or even single cameras, it makes sense to look beyond fisheye lenses into other solutions like spherical mirrors.
 
This is where 70mm and animation still rule for dome/planituarium shooting. The Cannon 5d (shooting time-lapse only) works for this....but, having done a few jobs for dome theater, i have to be careful what i shoot and leave top of film plane as bland as possible--nothing with deatail. Otherwise costs are just too high to do thepost work. This will open up a whole new arena when epic sensor is larger and allows digital dome shooting w/no post to deal with current height.
 
Yes, the EPIC-645, if/when it ever arrives is going to be an awesome solution for this (and a million other things).
 
Hi Per von Koch,

You might check this link:

http://www.220lens.com

I have the impression he knows how to do it. (Edit: I haven't any certainty how it would work with teh RED Sensor size/edit)



If I recall it correctly I found this out based on someone here in the REDuser Forum who does this stuff.

I shoot quite often with a Sigma 8mm (5Dm2 for CG/VFX) and I believe that an 180º view is just not enough for a dome, as the border is the critical point here, and 220º sounds so much more promising. But of course 220º means as well more data in the same resolution (for a single shot, with a single camera)

All the best

Sassi
 
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Rob Castiglione. There is a guy at UWA who has been doing 3D and planetarium type dome display stuff with Canons. His inputs would be interesting if he could be found. I think he may have been shooting dome stuff multicamera and stitching the images in an edit program and hardware he had modified to crunch lots of image data. John Reed at Notre Dame Uni would lead you to him. I think they were also involved in the outdoors screen events at Northbridge. I've lost touch and do not know his name. They borrowed my Peleng 8mm a long time ago when the original RED was still in its gestation.
 
Right you are Jeff, shooting RED is the only way to go for live action on the dome. (Time lapse is a whole 'nother discussion.) I've been shooting for the dome with RED since 08 and the Sunex lens still seems to be the best overall option out there. (The Sigma is awefull IMHO.) At 5.6mm and f5.6 (and 185°) the Sunex does get cropped a bit on the R1 and isn't the fastest lens out there - but it works. On an Epic, looks like it will achieve 2700x2700 at 30 fps which should look pretty good on larger 4K planetarium systems. 4K in our world is 4096x4096, and now there is 8K 8192x8192 (yikes).

Multi rig cameras are tough for the dome. Between blending and warping the images, by the time the final image is projected, it is tough to see the difference on screen.

Sassi, that looks like an interesting lens. Wonder how it would hold up on a 4K planetarium system. I'm always on the look out for circular fisheye lens solutions.

I'd love to see what others are doing for the dome. It is a great medium to work in.

Matt
 
Hi all!

I work in Novosibirsk Russia to the Planetarium, we also want to do a live video for the dome of the planetarium. Now we want to buy a camera and shoot RED EPIC 5K video. Of the lenses, we plan to use the Sigma 4.5 mm 2.8 Canon mount, and Sunex Super FishEye 5.6 mm, T5.6 Canon mount.
 
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