Illumina S35 vs. Optica Elite Digital S35 Lenses

[Greg Blakey]

why are you not talking to the people at slowmotion inc in LA? go try them your self

 

[Ketch Rossi]

The lenses were soft wide open and had considerable lack of field illumination, had considerable Purple fringing wide open, color changed when you close down, and personally I didn't like the way the lenses handled the highlights. It's all subjective but in the grand scheme of the above tests, they did not fare well against the other lens options.

In saying that I have heard of some owners sets that didn't exhibit these issues which is why in my opening post I said it appears that there are both good and bad sets out there, most likely an issue with the manufacturer QC. If I were buying a set I would test 3 or 4 side by side and pick the best one.

I just wanted to post the information here so it's a collective of everything there is to know on these lenses in one place. Right now there isn't much out there and the information is scattered. My goal for this thread was to provide a place to get everything about these lenses in one thread.

Okay, thanks Matt, that sound definitely like a QC issue.

 

[Matt Ryan]

why are you not talking to the people at slowmotion inc in LA? go try them your self

I am. This thread is about collecting as much info on the lenses as possible, not just one test. Obviously, like I stated in the opening post, there will be a test done as a comparison between the two. In the meantime this thread is for information and experience sharing with the lenses so we get as much information as possible as a whole.

If you don't have anything to add to the thread, please just keep it to yourself.

 

[Greg Blakey]

Apologies :blush2:, i think you mistook my australian tone. I own a set of optica elites in melbourne which you are more than welcome to try. However the issue is the 12764 Km distance. Qantas does however have a daily flight that does make the trip easier than the traditional boat travel which has become contentious in australian politics of late. It appears some "unsavory" types have been using this method to try and sneak in to the country. So i would not recommend that method of travel. It is very dangerous and i feel it would hamper your chances of testing a set of optica elites at t1.3 as the government frowns on this method of travel and you may find your self in detention for the next 3 years. My suggestion was instead of risking the oversea journey it might be easiest to pop down to slow motion inc and have a look at the lenses and report back quick snap to illuminate the rest of us to the delights and perils of using such unknown lenses at such a dangerous aperture.

In my experience they are very usable at 1.3 with no colour changing and good center sharpness. Yes they do become slightly soft on the edges and a bit milky. but this does give them a unique look that i am told varies from set to set. It can prove very useful and beautiful and sometimes disappointing. Each set is different and behaves differently because of their hand made qualities. This gives them a fantastic warm and very organic tone, but i would not recommend them for people looking for the consistency of image resolving that you get with cookes or zeiss.

All this said i would not recommend using it to photograph animals. Animals in my experience are volatile to work with. However they are sharp enough to capture a kitten playing with wool.

I hope this post is more informative than the previous,

Apologies again. :nonod:

 

[Nathaniel Kramer]

Matt, i realized i do have some stills i could offer up.. do you want raw or tiffs from red cine x pro?. They are not from the wides.. they are from the 50 and 85

 

[Matt Ryan]

Matt, i realized i do have some stills i could offer up.. do you want raw or tiffs from red cine x pro?. They are not from the wides.. they are from the 50 and 85

Nathaniel, thats great. Whatever is easier for you. Let me know if you want me to host them so they can be embedded full size.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Apologies :blush2:, i think you mistook my australian tone. I own a set of optica elites in melbourne which you are more than welcome to try. However the issue is the 12764 Km distance. Qantas does however have a daily flight that does make the trip easier than the traditional boat travel which has become contentious in australian politics of late. It appears some "unsavory" types have been using this method to try and sneak in to the country. So i would not recommend that method of travel. It is very dangerous and i feel it would hamper your chances of testing a set of optica elites at t1.3 as the government frowns on this method of travel and you may find your self in detention for the next 3 years. My suggestion was instead of risking the oversea journey it might be easiest to pop down to slow motion inc and have a look at the lenses and report back quick snap to illuminate the rest of us to the delights and perils of using such unknown lenses at such a dangerous aperture.

In my experience they are very usable at 1.3 with no colour changing and good center sharpness. Yes they do become slightly soft on the edges and a bit milky. but this does give them a unique look that i am told varies from set to set. It can prove very useful and beautiful and sometimes disappointing. Each set is different and behaves differently because of their hand made qualities. This gives them a fantastic warm and very organic tone, but i would not recommend them for people looking for the consistency of image resolving that you get with cookes or zeiss.

All this said i would not recommend using it to photograph animals. Animals in my experience are volatile to work with. However they are sharp enough to capture a kitten playing with wool.

I hope this post is more informative than the previous,

Apologies again. :nonod:

Hey Greg, I have to apologize as well. It's always tough trying to understand fully what is meant by text alone. I misread your post so my apologies as well.

Thanks for the post haha. It gave me a good laugh especially considering the state of illegal immigration here in the US. I am planning to do a test with the Elite's from Slow Motion or one of the other Reduser members in LA who have a set, but I'd really like to have a set of Illumina's and Elite's side by side in a test. I'm having a hard time finding a local set of Illumina's and am hoping to track one down in the near future to do a proper side by side test and evaluation. I agree that shooting animals, especially furry ones are difficult at times to render properly.

Thanks for the info and my deepest apology.

 

[Greg Blakey]

all good! glad you got the humour

from my understanding elites and illuminas are quite different. Lomo (the traditional russian glass maker) sells the glass to people like lumatechinc and they rehouse them to their own specs to create illuminas.

Elites are created in their own factory in st petersburg that specialise in various lenses from anamorphic through to laser based systems. I have had a look at the elite anamorphics last time i was at slowmotion inc, they are beautiful. I think the main similarity is in the price point and the fact both sets of glass come from st petersburg. Beyond that i think they have very different construction and potentially very different glass.

I would be interested to see them side by side. It would be worth looking on the lumatechinc website and talking to the chap in hollywood. I have put my elites next to a set of cooke s5i's they held up very well in terms of resolution, they had the similar breathing, elites have a similar roll off maybe a tad steeper, are slightly warmer and have a flatter feel. Elites are a good match for cookes and produce a similar feel.

 

[Matt Ryan]

all good! glad you got the humour

from my understanding elites and illuminas are quite different. Lomo (the traditional russian glass maker) sells the glass to people like lumatechinc and they rehouse them to their own specs to create illuminas.

Elites are created in their own factory in st petersburg that specialise in various lenses from anamorphic through to laser based systems. I have had a look at the elite anamorphics last time i was at slowmotion inc, they are beautiful. I think the main similarity is in the price point and the fact both sets of glass come from st petersburg. Beyond that i think they have very different construction and potentially very different glass.

I would be interested to see them side by side. It would be worth looking on the lumatechinc website and talking to the chap in hollywood. I have put my elites next to a set of cooke s5i's they held up very well in terms of resolution, they had the similar breathing, elites have a similar roll off maybe a tad steeper, are slightly warmer and have a flatter feel. Elites are a good match for cookes and produce a similar feel.

Thanks Greg. You make me very interested in the Elite's. Grigory also seems like a really good guy and responded to my emails within 24 hours. So I already like him.

I am concerned with the Illumina's as their QC seems to vary from lens to lens. I don't want to lead people in the wrong direction which is why I didn't want to speculate until actually putting them up side by side. I'd love to settle the "battle" between these two sets to find which one is not only the best value but which set handles being shot wide open the best.

I have seen the Elite Anamorphic's and from what I saw from the footage they looked great. Honestly I think if either of these sets match the performance of MarkIII Super Speeds than they are an excellent alterative. Not to mention they are both considerably less than the equivalent Super Speed set.

 

[Greg Blakey]

Grigory is fantastic to deal with, very helpful and reliable. These lenses do not come perfect so it would be in your interest to budget for a re shim if you are going to buy them. But for the price they are great.

Good luck

 

[Rogerhaugen]

My Elite Macro 100mm. I don´t know how may they made of them, but not many.....

Roger

 

[Matt Ryan]

My Elite Macro 100mm. I don´t know how may they made of them, but not many.....

Roger

haha that thing is huge! It looks like a rocket launcher.

 

[Rogerhaugen]

Yes I know! Its russian style! Not very heavy. But very nice to have in my kit

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Hey Matt,

Thank you for such an insightful thread! Now, just curious, on the "lenses for Epic" thread, there is a set that is also around the same price than the Illuminas and the Elites, by Unique Optics. Excuse my probable ignorance, haha, but is there a specific reason to leave these out of the comparison, given that their price point is similar? I am sure there is a very obvious reason that I will be embarrassed to read once someone answers, but I would be very interested in knowing if you or anyone has further info, opinions, about those

http://www.uniqoptics.net/

 

[Ned Wilson]

I have been told that the Elites are no longer in production. (this needs to be confirmed). Additionally, what is being sold is from inventory and that when depleted there will be no more.
But that's why the price is only $29,000 for a set of 6 lenses. Other info I have heard is that the Elites are of an older design and do not cover 5K (as do the S35 Illuminas).

By now many of you have seen the terrific work of Nathaniel Kramer, all shot with S35 Illuminas. He tells us he is shooting a feature film next month exclusively with the Illuminas.

Further T stop testing at Panavision Canada has shown that the Illumninas are faster than T1.3!

A set of S35 Illuminas is available for testing in Florida. If someone would like to come out and shoot their own tests we will be happy to arrange this.

So do the markings accurately reflect that?

 

[Matt Ryan]

Hey Matt,

Thank you for such an insightful thread! Now, just curious, on the "lenses for Epic" thread, there is a set that is also around the same price than the Illuminas and the Elites, by Unique Optics. Excuse my probable ignorance, haha, but is there a specific reason to leave these out of the comparison, given that their price point is similar? I am sure there is a very obvious reason that I will be embarrassed to read once someone answers, but I would be very interested in knowing if you or anyone has further info, opinions, about those

http://www.uniqoptics.net/

Hey Carlos,

The Uniq Optics lenses are nearly identical to Red Pro Primes in every sense. The lens test I posted above "Portland Lens Test," tested a set of Uniq Optics lenses (You can read the blog with notes on each lens tested which is linked in the video). The final consensus was that they were so close to RPP's that they were only differentiated by their housing. I really wanted this thread to be about faster lenses i.e. t1.3. The Uniq Optics like the RPP's are t2. These lenses are the same speed as Super Speeds and Master Primes with the Illumina's being slightly faster than all of these. I just wanted to keep the thread about these high speed alternatives to the higher cost lenses out there. Hope this answers your question.

 

[Fred Salaff]

A Greek cinematographer shot recently in Russia and sent us these comments about the S35 Illumina lenses:

The ILLUMINA-MK II are a very efficient set of lenses. I was told they
were designed for the army and if that is true it explains how
beautifully sharp they are at any focal length. Having said that, a huge
depth of field (required in all film cinematography) is quite hard to
achieve. I managed to get this at the f-stop range of 1.3+2/3-2+1/3.
Anything beyond that and the backgrounds start getting very sharp. A
hard task for focus pullers, as well as heavy ND filters are required
for exterior photography. Once achieved though, the bokeh on these
lenses is sweet and non distracting.

The colours they produce are very accurate and provide a huge range for
grading in post. Even in complete overcast in Russia, we managed to get
an image that will require only a few percent increase in saturation.
And the grays for dark and bright areas are represented fully.

The set ranges from 18-25-35-50-85mm and I was glad to hear that 135mm
is coming very soon. With it, it shall be complete, although the other
end of the spectrum could benefit from a 14 and/or 16mm. Much care is
needed for constructing wider lenses when it comes to distortion. The
18mm already has a slight fisheye effect with chromatic aberration at
the edges. Thankfully it is very thin and could afford being cropped in
post (less than 2%).

All in all, a great set. The ILLUMINA-MK II are easy to use and produce a
great cinematic image. I am looking forward to working with them in
different light conditions to see what results they yield, as well as
their MK-III progression in the future.

Alexis Lanitis
Cinematographer

 

[Nathaniel Kramer]

Im still loving my MKI's... I think Alexis comments are accurate.. I m not sure about his Depth of Field analysis and it really depends on the distances from lens to subject to background .. I can tell you one thing though, I regularly shoot wide open 1.3 and rarely am i closed down past 2.8, and they perform spectacularly, of course, at these large apertures, you better be sure your focus is spot on for close ups as an inch or two off and you go soft- but isnt that the point ? Thats where skill comes into play.- this is true for any lens made by any manufacturer if its lens thats a T.95, T 1.2, T 1.3 or T 1.4 . Many times when shooting beauty close -ups, I use this technique to soften a models skin. I can focus on her eyes, but keep her face just the tiniest bit soft, giving her smooth skin.. And i do believe the T1.3 rating is very conservative.. I would actually plave them at 1.2 or 1.1.
I am constantly thrilled in low light situations, when I see no noise in the blacks on my Epic monitor. And for me, any day that there is no purple in exposure mode or red on the left goal post in raw is great day! Fred, when is the 135 going to be available? I currently shoot my 1989 Nikon 135 2.0,which has a great look and is quite small, but would love to switch out to a cine prime.

 

[Fred Salaff]

The 135mm will start shipping mid October!

 

[Matt Ryan]

Anyone have any stills to post from these lenses. We need images and samples. Theres a set of Elites for sale here and I'm interested, but they are in Austria. Every time I try to rent a set from Slow Motion INC in LA they are booked out!