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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MAC vs. PC

Also. Def agree on the SSD. As for raid, I'm looking into that as well.
 
Jon Jones said:
The stats on my new MAC PRO, are double of everything you have posted here, and I have a ROCKET and I don't get smooth 5k 1/2 res. playback on a full timeline. 1/8 res, yes maybe, if I'm not running anything else, and if the timeline isn't a mile long. If you get smooth 5k at 1/2 res without a rocket, either there is only 1 clip on your timeline or you pre render. Otherwise it's not true.
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There's something wrong with your machine if you can only get 1/8 res playback.

Jon Jones said:
If your getting a new video card I would go with a GTX 690, I mean it's fairly cheap and you get tons of video ram, and enough cuda cores to fill a small wheel barrow, and that's saying something!
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You don't actually want a 600 series nVidia card as the 500 series cards offer similar/better Cuda performance.

Paul Schneider said:
He recco's the newest Intel E5 chipset over the I7.
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Seeing how you need to choose Xeon to be able to have two CPUs I'd recommend the E5, too. But if you can only afford to build a system with one CPU, I'd definitely go for an i7.
 
Mac vs. PC - i don't really care about the hardware, it's more like:

OSX vx. Win7 - I hate windows with passion, i HATE IT, I can't stand it... And I would be willing to do almost everything to avoid going back to Windows, including start smoking again and introducing longer render breaks...
 
Jon Jones said:
The stats on my new MAC PRO, are double of everything you have posted here, and I have a ROCKET and I don't get smooth 5k 1/2 res. playback on a full timeline. 1/8 res, yes maybe, if I'm not running anything else, and if the timeline isn't a mile long. If you get smooth 5k at 1/2 res without a rocket, either there is only 1 clip on your timeline or you pre render. Otherwise it's not true.
Click to expand...

There's something wrong with your system then. I have a 2011 Macbook Pro 17" with i7 2.2GHz and 16GB RAM and can play 4K footage fairly moothly at 1/2 and really smooth at 1/4. 5K is usable at 1/4, and completely smooth at 1/8. And that's with no Rocket. It sounds like on your system is not taking advantage of the Rocket for playback of the R3Ds.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
If you're going to spend the money on an SSD, the Intel 710 is not where it's at. The Samsung 830 and OCZ Vertex 4 are twice as fast.
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The higher speeds are generally due to the Sandforce or other controllers that compress.

Text, XLS, DOC, etc. - compresses well.

R3D files and other video temporary output formats don't.

So the higher speeds may be a bit misleading.

Also consider the Crucial M4. I was initially mislead by the transfer rates quoted by the other products.

Then I also looked at NewEgg customer ratings for problems.

The Crucial M4 won out for me.

--- BTW - one thing you're going to have to deal with is that R3Ds take over 2GB/minute of storage, depending on your compression rate. That adds up pretty quickly.

Any file that isn't backed up in two places, doesn't really exist in our space/time continuum.

I'm pretty anal, and have a backup server with RAID (actually, all my computers use 3ware/LSI RAID, even my Mac Pro) dedicated to backing up files on my other boxes (Mac and PC) using Retrospect.

I then export backups from Retrospect onto 2TB drives (using an external USB/eStata enclosure with a fan on the bottom where I never put the top on and can drop the drives in and out), and those get rotated into my safety deposit box.

I also image my boot drives with Acronis and Farstone (I use both as I hate the idea that one might have an issue).

The rabbit hole of necessary hardware just keeps getting deeper and deeper!!!

One other thing. Get a very large power supply, and get one that you can replace yourself.

If the main power cable is routed in a fashion where you have to remove the motherboard to get to it, this is not good.

I'm considering the Antec HCP-1000 - as it has modular connectors for the main motherboard power as well as the PCIe, SATA, etc. - but I'm open to suggestions about power supplies.
 
For those of you saying there's something wrong with my system, you obviously did not read what I wrote. I'm talking about real time functionality not just one clip sitting in redcine. I'm talking about a full timeline. Anyone can have full 5k playback in redcine if they wait long enough for it to buffer. I have dual xeons 64gigs of ram, quadro 4000 and a rocket card.
 
Les C. said:
The higher speeds are generally due to the Sandforce or other controllers that compress.

Text, XLS, DOC, etc. - compresses well.

R3D files and other video temporary output formats don't.

So the higher speeds may be a bit misleading.
Click to expand...

This is indeed true -- SandForce controllers are some of the worst offenders. Not in their performance, but in the advertised speeds and marketing behind them. That said, I still stand by what I said in regards to the SSD and the speeds I quoted are pretty much on par with what you can expect from the latest batch of units on the market. Intel's upcoming 720 series of SSDs is also up there in performance too, but also in price. The OCZ Vertex 4 is the current king of the hill in 2.5" SSD's. Over 90K IOPS and it can still hold over 365MB/s for read and write on incompressible data. Samsung, Intel, Crucial and now OCZ all have done away with using SandForce controllers in their newer products. Samsung and Intel develop their own -- Intel 710 has an Intel controller, as does the upcoming 720 6Gbps units. The Intel 520, 310 and 320 series all use SandForce controllers. Crucial/ Micron have their own controller. OCZ bought out IndiLinx...

The whole incompressible data thing as it pertains to larger video files like R3D, H264 and similar is somewhat of a non-concern when the SSD is being used as a primary OS / system drive. You really won't be using it for workspace or to shuttle those sorts of files around. What you do want is consistent performance and a stable product, fast reads are a bonus. The newer controllers, including SandForce, are much better at cacheing and compressing data on the fly than before. Even "incompressible" data can be cached and/or compressed with other data on internal transactions.

Also consider the Crucial M4. I was initially mislead by the transfer rates quoted by the other products.
Click to expand...

The M4 is a great SSD. It's not very fast compared to what else is out there, read times aren't bad but the write times stink. That aside, iit's a solid and reliable product and makes a great option for a primary system volume containing OS and apps where read speed is the primary concern.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
This is indeed true -- SandForce controllers are some of the worst offenders. Not in their performance, but in the advertised speeds and marketing behind them. That said, I still stand by what I said in regards to the SSD and the speeds I quoted are pretty much on par with what you can expect from the latest batch of units on the market. Intel's upcoming 720 series of SSDs is also up there in performance too, but also in price. The OCZ Vertex 4 is the current king of the hill in 2.5" SSD's. Over 90K IOPS and it can still hold over 365MB/s for read and write on incompressible data. Samsung, Intel, Crucial and now OCZ all have done away with using SandForce controllers in their newer products. Samsung and Intel develop their own -- Intel 710 has an Intel controller, as does the upcoming 720 6Gbps units. The Intel 520, 310 and 320 series all use SandForce controllers. Crucial/ Micron have their own controller. OCZ bought out IndiLinx...

The whole incompressible data thing as it pertains to larger video files like R3D, H264 and similar is somewhat of a non-concern when the SSD is being used as a primary OS / system drive. You really won't be using it for workspace or to shuttle those sorts of files around. What you do want is consistent performance and a stable product, fast reads are a bonus. The newer controllers, including SandForce, are much better at cacheing and compressing data on the fly than before. Even "incompressible" data can be cached and/or compressed with other data on internal transactions.



The M4 is a great SSD. It's not very fast compared to what else is out there, read times aren't bad but the write times stink. That aside, iit's a solid and reliable product and makes a great option for a primary system volume containing OS and apps where read speed is the primary concern.
Click to expand...

If used for your main drive, compression would be useful. However, I wouldn't use SSDs for my main drive unless RAIDed, and that makes things a bit more complex with the TRIM command, compatibility etc. to think about.

The published write times may deviate sharply from the benchmarks, especially when using randomized data, so ... you really have to be careful in choosing which benchmark.

Bottom line ... if you go with a reliable SSD (reading customer reviews on NewEgg is pretty useful for determining which are going to have problems, as a super fast SSD with problems, or one that slows down very quickly after a bit of use, isn't going to make for happy campers this Summer), you're going to be happy with the speed, even if it's not the absolute fastest.

ECC RAM is probably slower than non-ECC RAM, but ... I sleep better. Go for quality. Crucial and Intel are certainly among the most reliable.

Definitely stay away from any 3rd tier smaller vendors like PNY.
 
Jon Jones said:
For those of you saying there's something wrong with my system, you obviously did not read what I wrote. I'm talking about real time functionality not just one clip sitting in redcine. I'm talking about a full timeline. Anyone can have full 5k playback in redcine if they wait long enough for it to buffer. I have dual xeons 64gigs of ram, quadro 4000 and a rocket card.
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At least I am talking about realtime functionality while editing in Premiere. And unless a "full timeline" for you means that it has multiple streams of video playing back at once, then I'll repeat myself and say there's something wrong with your machine. My 2010 iMac easily does 1/4 res 4K playback on sequences with numerous edits and dissolves in Premiere and Resolve.
 
Jon Jones said:
For those of you saying there's something wrong with my system, you obviously did not read what I wrote. I'm talking about real time functionality not just one clip sitting in redcine. I'm talking about a full timeline. Anyone can have full 5k playback in redcine if they wait long enough for it to buffer. I have dual xeons 64gigs of ram, quadro 4000 and a rocket card.
Click to expand...

Jaakko Rinne said:
At least I am talking about realtime functionality while editing in Premiere. And unless a "full timeline" for you means that it has multiple streams of video playing back at once, then I'll repeat myself and say there's something wrong with your machine. My 2010 iMac easily does 1/4 res 4K playback on sequences with numerous edits and dissolves in Premiere and Resolve.
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I agree. Something definitely wrong. I get playback in Premiere Pro also at the resolutions I listed previously, and without a Rocket.
 
Mike Halper said:
I agree. Something definitely wrong. I get playback in Premiere Pro also at the resolutions I listed previously, and without a Rocket.
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Jon Jones,

Why don't you clarify what you mean by "1/2, 5K realtime playback" for yourself?

Im getting the same results as everyone.
In Premiere CS6
 
Jon Jones said:
For those of you saying there's something wrong with my system, you obviously did not read what I wrote. I'm talking about real time functionality not just one clip sitting in redcine. I'm talking about a full timeline. Anyone can have full 5k playback in redcine if they wait long enough for it to buffer. I have dual xeons 64gigs of ram, quadro 4000 and a rocket card.
Click to expand...

I think the confusion is, everyone is talking about playback in Premiere.
 
Jon Jones said:
I have a love hate relationship with REDuser... There is so much drama sometimes, but I keep on being drawn back to it looking for posts that may help me in my endeavors.
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Face it mate, you have a bung system regardless of what program your using. Instead of helping others, I suggest getting your computer working , otherwise it's not terribly reassuring
 
My system is not bung, I actually decided the other day that I am going to give that MAC PRO away, along with the DIT cart it is on and a new 32TB raid array that hasn't arrived just yet. I now use the new MacBook Pro with 2 8TB Thunderbolt RAID array's, it's my new ultra portable DIT system. I have been arguing, and sticking up for it, because I spent so much on it. But I have moved on to smaller and better things. Also the one and only problem with that computer is no RAID. You guys all talking about how my system is messed up or bunged or whatever you want to call it, are wrong. The only problem is the transfer speeds.
 
Jon Jones said:
Also the one and only problem with that computer is no RAID. You guys all talking about how my system is messed up or bunged or whatever you want to call it, are wrong. The only problem is the transfer speeds.
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which equates to a bung system. you have a rocket and 1/8th playback. that munted, and a waste of money
 
Jon, I'm not saying your system is bung, but something is wrong if you're not getting smooth playback with 5K at even 1/8 (you said maybe which isn't promising) in Premiere Pro when using a Rocket. You should get that with CS 5.5 or CS 6, and I would say at least 1/2 quality and should be full quality, with a Rocket of course. Are you sure it's taking advantage of the Rocket? Because it sounds like it's not, except for that you said render times are very fast.
 
There was your problem.
Data transfer rate perhaps?

There's no drama.
We're all trying to help, learn, share.
 
Jon Jones said:
Also the one and only problem with that computer is no RAID. You guys all talking about how my system is messed up or bunged or whatever you want to call it, are wrong. The only problem is the transfer speeds.
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And that right there could be your problem. Why say you've got "double everything" if you don't have RAID, while Joseph - whose machine you were comparing yours to - has? The first time I tried R3D playback on my iMac I was underwhelmed by the performance, but after actually putting the media on a fast drive I got what I was looking for.
 
So first thing is first, no matter if you have a Mac or PC, you have to have a RAID if your going to get any kind of decent performance in your editing. It's funny that I didn't realize that... Well it's a good thing that I ordered multiple RAID's over the last month and they are all arriving this week and next week. I should have ordered them months ago, years ago...
 
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