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RED Pro Primes vs Zeis CP2

J

Joel Mielle

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I'm planning on buying a RED Pro Zoom 17-50 and a RED Prime of 85mm. That should cover the basics for film making on a budget.
Can anyone share experiences with Zeiss and RED lenses, how they compare. Would an 85 Zeiss be better than 85 Red prime?
 
Haven't used the CP.2s, but just wrapped on a short shot on the RPPs yesterday. They were awesome... beautiful picture. Again, haven't used the CP.2s so I can't say anything bad about them. I also have the 17-50 and its worked a charm.
 
I have two red pro primes (18 & 35) and two Cp.2 ... I've just gotten spoiled with the RPP's ... so I find i shoot 95% of my time with the RPP's. If you have a scarlet, due to the crop factor ... I'd think the 85 is more of a luxury item. BTW the lenses "feel" different between edit cuts, and I'm not sophisticate enough to figure out how to "correct" that "feel" (it makes for a bad cut, you also need to re shoot the color chart between switching between the cp2's and the RPP's). The RPP are perty heavy ... so I do use the CP.2 when I need a lighter setup, but i'm 99.9% of the time on a big rig so the weight doesn't matter. I'm a lens novice ... so these are more "feelings" then something scientific.
 
I like them both, and they both have ups and downs. I chose to buy the CP2's as I actually like the image more than the RPP's and for their size and weight with my epic, and being able to cover full frame where the RPP's will not so if RED eventually go bigger and bigger with their sensors as they are they will not cover it. Either way the RPP's are stunning sharp glass, they both have pros and cons from build to imagery... I just prefe the Zeiss look.
As another thought...I also rent some gear to people I know and no one chooses the RPP's over the Zeiss CP2's...interesting don't you think?
 
Wow that's interesting that there would be so much difference that would issue a bad cut between lenses. Thanks for the tip, don't mix your lenses.
I've rented the CP2s before and I tend to use the 85's quite a lot even on a cropped sensor, so I don't see it as a luxury. I loved working with CP2's but can't afford to rent them each time and the RED zoom seems a pretty good option. I could opt for the 18-55 but I'm sure the top end won't be up to scratch and have more faith on the 17-50 which everyone seems to be happy with. The heaviness concerns me a little and they are quite slow at t.29. Appreciate your comments, cheers!
 
Hi,

I used 2 sets of RPP's on a two-(RED)camera feature last year. They are fine optically and I can work with their weight, but we had constant issues with the mechanics and backfocus.
Because of this and because the rental company decided to abandon them all together I did not work with them again. Maybe we just had a bad batch.

I have been shooting a documentary with (mostly) the RED 17-50 and it turned out to be a fine lens with nice characteristics. It is big, but small enough to shoot handheld with.
And the range is perfect for regular filming. The the lack of flare pleasantly surprised me.

Earlier this year I bought a set of CP2's (21-28-35-50closefocus-85) and for the most part I am happy with them. I have been using them intensively on a TV series the past months.
The sharpness and brightness are fantastic although this is a matter of taste because you can find them a bit harsh.
My focuspuller had to get used to the fact that pulling focus can be a pain. The fall-off of these lenses is very steep, so the shot is either in focus or very out of focus - nothing in between.
This is specially the case with the 50mm closefocus because it's lack of markings in the 2-10 meter area. Ironically, this lens reproduces a gorgeous image, so despite my focuspuller I love to use it.
Do not use/buy the 18mm because it is really not sharp and it does not cover 5K.
A real sellingpoint is the fact that the CP2's have changeable mounts. I can easily switch between EF and PL mounts, so I can use it on all popular cameras.

Cheers,
Joost van Herwijnen
 
both lens sets are pretty good. both lenses lack enough focus distance markings. RPP is way sharper and more aspherical. Cp.2 are nice a tad softer as you open up.
 
You also need to think about the availability of the red primes in the future if you intend buying more than just the 85mm.
I use my 17-35 with my cp.2's all the time. The red zoom is softer than the zeiss' but is still a great lens for the money. The red primes are great visually but a little heavy for my current jobs which have involved a lot of one man travel jobs.
Everyone has an opinion on which lens is "best" but it really comes down to the kind of work that you are doing. I own a set of CP.2's but commonly rent other lenses.
A 17-35 and an 85mm will serve you well for many jobs.
 
--I own the CP2s and have used the RPPs.. I am a fan of the Zeiss look and feel even the the RPPs are sweet!
--I also like the ability to put the Canon mount on my CP2s so I can use them with my canon glass. Can't do that with the RPPs
--The RPPs are not any sharper in any test I have ever seen but they are great lenses.
--The RPPs are heavy!
--whoever said the CP2s breath more must have had a bad set, id love to see a shot where they breath
--Your best investment is to go rent or borrow both sets and test yourself! Everything has is pros and cons.

Glass is for life!

--best set: 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. I've rented the set out so many times that they have paid for themselves 4x over in the 2 years I've had them.. They just came back from th set of the new Michael Bay Movie pain and gain.
 
I find that the CP2s are a major let down if you are used to cine lenses. They flare easily, and not attractively, they are very soft wide open, and they generally look flat and milky. The flat and milky can be fixed to a degree in post, but they have ungodly ugly veiling flare if there is anything bright in the frame.

On the up side, they are mechanically very nice, and have an excellent focus scale. They are also small and light.

I would take a quality set of lomos or a set of old manual nikons over the cp2s. I would think you could get a set of Ziess standards for almost the same price as you would pay for a set of cp2s.

Nick
 
Nick Gardner said:
I find that the CP2s are a major let down if you are used to cine lenses. They flare easily, and not attractively, they are very soft wide open, and they generally look flat and milky. The flat and milky can be fixed to a degree in post, but they have ungodly ugly veiling flare if there is anything bright in the frame.On the up side, they are mechanically very nice, and have an excellent focus scale. They are also small and light. I would take a quality set of lomos or a set of old manual nikons over the cp2s. I would think you could get a set of Ziess standards for almost the same price as you would pay for a set of cp2s.Nick
Click to expand...

For whatever it's worth, one of the (many) reasons I bought Contax glass (the lenses upon with CP2s were based) was because though it flared...it flares much nicer than CP2s/ZE's.

The old T* coating on Super Speeds, Standard Speeds, Hasselblads and Contax glass is quite pretty.

The truth is...CP2s are STILLS GLASS. You may want to consider cinemodded ZFs or Contax Glass. Optically, they are so similar.
 
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I would say Zeiss CP.2 all day everyday. My university has both the RPP set (1st gen) and the Zeiss CP.2's that we just got in last summer, so I've used both and can compare both in a real world scenario.

Zeiss CP.2's have a much nicer bokeh and better overall colour reproduction than the RPP set. There's something about the Zeiss that I can't quite put my finger on, but nonetheless the image it produces just seems of better quality than the RPP's.

RPP's are heavier and generally less handheld friendly (I love doing handheld stuff), and their image has a bigger variance throughout the whole set versus the CP.2's.

I can't comment on RPP breathing but CP.2's have zero breathing from what I've experienced with them. Zeiss also has interchangable mounts... something which the RPP don't have.
 
All I can say from real world situations where I have to make pretty pictures for clients that are paying me is that CP2s make me do more work, and compromise my shots and artistic vision to get what I consider professional results.

Nick
 
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