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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Subtlety

P

Peter Lyons Collister ASC

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After having seen Dariusz's amazing work on Prometheus I can say that his work has done more to solidify Epic in the whole world of acceptance than any film up to now.

It is an EPIC film yet the subtlety of the tonality and contrast and skin tones is filmic. We all know that the Epic can produce amazingly sharp colorful images than wow the eye. But now we have images that blow away the tonality of Alexa images. Finally I have an example of a huge blockbuster that my "ALEXA" commercial directors say "WOW!"

Thank you Derek, and I hope "Spiderman" helps in that regard also.

Don't shoot me Brook but I worry that "Gatsby" is a little too flashy and contrasty and does not show the full tonal range available to filmmakers that Epic offers.

Baz's choice for sure....
 
Peter,

Glad to hear an ASC talking about this. I've been trying to sell RED to all of my clients but I hear a lot of the "Alexa skin tones look better". Now I'll show them your quote.
 
roryhinds said:
Red just need to ship a ProRes module and the Epic's out there will get more work.
Click to expand...

Yep! DEAD RIGHT !

Not everyone is POST SAVEY... hence the only reason ARRI has taken off. I bet you if it was a RAW camera only, it would be as dead and as lonely as the D21.

Arri realized that a majority of people have know idea about post production... hence sold out to very easy video format. Which works!

prores%20module.jpg
 
yeah even though Apple hold the use of ProRes and they have abandoned the Pro market... its crazy but as you say, some people don't know much about post and just want to shoot and that is way EPIC's sit on peoples shelves and Alexa's are out shooting... the cold reality is if RED don't sort this out soon then that really does suck as the EPIC is a far far better imaging tool with so many benefits only the post savvy shoots can take advantage of.

It's frustrating that RED announced a hint at the ProRes module so so so so so so many years ago and as yet nothing has come out from them.
 
Why oh why won't RED bring out this module so all us EPIC owners can stop this Alexa craziness that is killing our business.

Come on RED step up.
 
Peter, I'm sure Spider-man will win over lots. Also, Gatsby has a nice mix. Also, I think most people will be blown away by the parties and the way in which Baz tells the story and that the images will support that.

Peter Lyons Collister said:
After having seen Dariusz's amazing work on Prometheus I can say that his work has done more to solidify Epic in the whole world of acceptance than any film up to now.

It is an EPIC film yet the subtlety of the tonality and contrast and skin tones is filmic. We all know that the Epic can produce amazingly sharp colorful images than wow the eye. But now we have images that blow away the tonality of Alexa images. Finally I have an example of a huge blockbuster that my "ALEXA" commercial directors say "WOW!"

Thank you Derek, and I hope "Spiderman" helps in that regard also.

Don't shoot me Brook but I worry that "Gatsby" is a little too flashy and contrasty and does not show the full tonal range available to filmmakers that Epic offers.

Baz's choice for sure....
Click to expand...
 
roryhinds said:
Why oh why won't RED bring out this module so all us EPIC owners can stop this Alexa craziness that is killing our business.

Come on RED step up.
Click to expand...

Errr perhaps because they know someone else is already working on it? Be interested to see what AJA come up with, for instance. I recently had a conversation at REDucation with Ted S. and an AJA guy... looking at a Ki Pro Mini... I remarked they should build basically the same thing but as a rear module, with various recording options... the response from the AJA guy was of the 'ummm watch this space...' variety ;-)

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Errr perhaps because they know someone else is already working on it? Be interested to see what AJA come up with, for instance. I recently had a conversation at REDucation with Ted S. and an AJA guy... looking at a Ki Pro Mini... I remarked they should build basically the same thing but as a rear module, with various recording options... the response from the AJA guy was of the 'ummm watch this space...' variety ;-)

Mike
Click to expand...

I think RED knows the deal, they ain't stupid.

This "Alexa is better cuz it records to Apple Pro Res" crap needs to end.

It's so misinformed it makes my ears bleed.
 
There used to be an argument about Fuji film stocks having better skin tones thank Kodak. Now it's Alexa vs EPIC. Bottom line is both formats look amazing, and it simply comes down to personal preference.
 
roryhinds said:
Red just need to ship a ProRes module and the Epic's out there will get more work.
Click to expand...

It's in the works Rory... trust me! It's awesome! I've heard about it from certain Red Engineers! It's going to record on two different types of media too!
 
Brad Webb said:
There used to be an argument about Fuji film stocks having better skin tones thank Kodak. Now it's Alexa vs EPIC. Bottom line is both formats look amazing, and it simply comes down to personal preference.
Click to expand...

Until Dragon...which will burn Alexa to dust.
 
Curt Pair said:
It's in the works Rory... trust me! It's awesome! I've heard about it from certain Red Engineers! It's going to record on two different types of media too!
Click to expand...

As long as it records at any frame rate that RAW can, this is the biggest news for RED since DSMC was announced.
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
It is an EPIC film yet the subtlety of the tonality and contrast and skin tones is filmic. We all know that the Epic can produce amazingly sharp colorful images than wow the eye. But now we have images that blow away the tonality of Alexa images.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I honestly believe this was a combination of great lighting, great exposure, and great color correction -- not just the camera. I think talent at the level of Ridley Scott and Dariusz Wolski are going to get fantastic results with any camera they use. And I think CO3 colorist Stephen Nakamura had a lot to do with it as well.

I've believed for a long time that we're getting to the point where the differences between camera choices is very much like the differences between film stocks. I would no more say, "wow, such-and-such a film looks so great because they shot with Vision 320" or "it looks great because of that Fuji 500." To me, that does a disservice to the work of the cinematographer, because they had the greatest effect on the image -- not the camera or the pickup. Strictly my opinion.
 
Marc,

I totally agree with you. I guess I am a little hyper sensitive to the tonality/skin tone discussion vis-a-vis Alexa versus Epic since I have been forced to use Alexa on numerous jobs because the director believes in the "Alexa" look. I agree that in the end it is the production design, the Dp's lighting and the colorist that have the most to do with how a film looks.

In the past we as DPs were allowed to pick the camera, lenses and film stock UNLESS there was a financial reason for the studios. ( Often we would shoot Eastman as a camera stock and release prints would be Fuji. I would like to go back to being allowed to use the camera of my choice.

Peter
 
Marc Wielage said:
I've believed for a long time that we're getting to the point where the differences between camera choices is very much like the differences between film stocks. I would no more say, "wow, such-and-such a film looks so great because they shot with Vision 320" or "it looks great because of that Fuji 500." To me, that does a disservice to the work of the cinematographer, because they had the greatest effect on the image -- not the camera or the pickup. Strictly my opinion.
Click to expand...

not strictly yours, Marc :-)
Actually, I personally believe the differences between different high end camera systems today are even smaller than those between different camera stocks...but that's me.
 
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