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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic monitor: how many clicks Jim?

Lewis-M Soucy

Lewis-M Soucy

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I remember Jim's magical recipe for the Red One monitor:


"1. Make sure your monitor/LCD's brightness is set correctly. The RED LCD's need 4 or 5 clicks down from full bright in most circumstances. If set too bright... it seduces you to stop down and under-expose."

—Jim, May 25th 2009
​


Now with the Epic monitor, what's the recipe?

This monitor is SO bright! All these details in the darks, which is fantastic for shooting at night or in low light conditions btw, (and makes my assistants really jealous on their monitor)... But to have a WYSIWYG appreciation, it's a bit off over and seems to be much more bright than the actual footage viewed in Redcine... So I click it down to the max, but still...

Could someone help with a new "Exposure 101" thread? I still haven't got my confidence back from my old settings on the R1... I miss the rainbow meter!!! :cry:
 
I just think in terms of metering - to me a monitor is just for framing and checking white clip and noise floor. I would never trust an LCD for color anyway.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
I just think in terms of metering - to me a monitor is just for framing and checking white clip and noise floor. I would never trust an LCD for color anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm talking exposure calibration, not color. Nowadays you can certainly trust some monitors. On my R1, I was getting EXACTLY what was on the monitor.

Hudson Tanimoto said:
It's all there on the histogram...
Click to expand...

Mind developing a bit?
 
There really isn't a universal answer to 'how many clicks' for the simple reason that calibrating a monitor depends on the environment it is in as much as anything else. And since that can change, there are no 'universal' settings for 'correct'. The picture on the monitor is for framing and composition and not really a exposure tool.

If you insist on using the preview image on the monitor as an exposure tool...well. Pick your own 'recipe'. Regardless if a RED employee or another user tells you something different once you've settled on a setting for YOU. What you are wanting to do is trying to train your eye and brain to get so used to one setting, that you know what you're getting for exposure in post.

I'd recommend you use goal posts, stoplight, exposure check mode for judging exposure. Especially if you move from camera to camera and/or monitor to monitor between shoots/setups.
 
Put to monitors side by side of any brand.. even the so called reference monitors... and you will see that a monitor is just a monitor it's not an instrument in the sense that you see whats in the pixels... then if the touch screen is right... you mean it looks like it does on your mac / pc screen or in your projector or Plasma or LCD or Oled... if you got them all to match each other than Im quite amazed. I got 4 different monitors sitting side by side in our online suite and they look all different, because thats what monitors do...
The histogram is the only way to view whats there unfortunatly. I see it as when we where shooting film, the video tap is just a video tap you can bring up or down brightness and color, but it will never be the actuall film...
 
Ok ok, lots of monitor science here, not looking for a film monitor course, just a tip from the boss like he did with the other monitor. The last time Jim gave that tip it was pretty useful and accurate. I noticed the touch screen one was very bright and wanted a tip. That's all. A tip. Read the original post, Jim gave a tip with the old monitor, so I was looking for a tip for the new one.
 
The "tip" for the last monitor and this monitor is irrelevant if you really want to make your life simple and accurate! You think because the “boss” gave a tip it means it’s the best, most effective and logical way to expose your shots!... This is not "Monitor science"?... it couldn’t be a simpler concept to understand. There is NO exact or ideal brightness setting on a monitor that will give you the right exposure values. The real problem is in the ENVIROMENT around the monitor. The color and intensity of the light rays that hit the monitor, bounce off the monitor, hit objects behind the monitor and even reach your own eyes will be DIFFERENT every time the monitor moves from one position to the next, from one situation to the next and from one environment to the next. It doesn’t matter if you have an incredibly professional monitor because everything around the monitor is changing and will continue to do so unless you are in a completely dark and sealed room where nothing is moving and even then the image in the your monitor is going to look different then the DIT’s monitor, the director’s monitor and even the color grading projector. Use the goal posts, histogram and false color tools which are terribly simple to use and will get you the exposure you want in seconds, with little brain power and without having to uselessly strain your eyes. Guiding your exposure values using a monitor will only ruin your site and produce random exposures for each shot.

Here is a link to the trailer of a 17 minute short that I DPed on the RED ONE a couple of years ago without using a light meter and only using the tools I mentioned above. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6403yYHG7E0 The film got selected at the Palm Spring International Short Film Festival. Here is the link: http://www.psfilmfest.org/festival/film/detail.aspx?id=23330&FID=59 This means that the photography at least has a descent standard and that it doesn't suck.

I am only 20 years old and can say that what I wrote above is not monitor science but instead a great concept that will help you achieve precise results in a faster and easier way.
 
Last edited:
No he posted all this stuff for the epic. Click all the way up, then 4 back. Been using this method, works great.

Matt Ryan said:
I believe he said 3 clicks down for the touchscreen. Or maybe I'm just dreaming he said that.
Click to expand...
 
In the interest of serving the original post (and I apologize for not being Jim), I suggest the best way to establish a subjective reference is to use your own eyes instead of taking general advice from someone else. This could be done easy enough by shooting under "normal" conditions, loading the footage into RCX, comparing the two, then making adjustments to the monitor controls. I don't see how this could be less valid than a number given by someone else (including the owner of the camera company). After all, asking for a number is like asking "what looks good to me?" and that may or may not be the same for someone else.

That said, I'm 100% against subjective analysis for exposure. As other posters have said, numbers don't lie. Color theory and monitor science aside, it's simply a matter of knowing what is real versus believing it to be and suffering the consequences if you're wrong.
 
Johanan Benavides said:
Here is a link to the trailer of a 17 minute short that I DPed on the RED ONE a couple of years ago without using a light meter and only using the tools I mentioned above. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6403yYHG7E0 The film got selected at the Palm Spring International Short Film Festival. Here is the link: http://www.psfilmfest.org/festival/film/detail.aspx?id=23330&FID=59 This means that the photography at least has a descent standard and that it doesn't suck.

I am only 20 years old and can say that what I wrote above is not monitor science but instead a great concept that will help you achieve precise results in a faster and easier way.
Click to expand...

HIJACKING!!!!
 
I found that displaying the greyscale on the LCD worked great with Red One, to enable you to see when you were viewing off axis, or ambient light was affecting the monitor.
Is this option still available with Epic?
I hope so....ours should be arriving next week.
 
Sidney L. Plaut said:
the epic monitor is very bright. I find I need to set it below "middle".

And DAMN I miss the rainbow bars - it was a brilliant exposure tool!
Click to expand...

Mine is clicked all the way down, and still very bright!

I want the rainbow bars back!!!
 
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