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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic Advertising

Burberry own at least one epic and shoot a tonne of still stuff for catalogues and websites.
Paul
 
Jarred Land said:
Mark. I hope you have been drinking as you are not making very much sense.
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Very tired, after a happy Epic shoot today. Went a few rounds shooting Oscar de la Hoya and friends.

Being a jerk... In a sentimental mood. But gray skies are just clouds passing over.


I apologize for coming across a critic...

"Critics have their purposes, and they're supposed to do what they do, but sometimes they get a little carried away with what they think someone should have done, rather than concerning themselves with what they did."

Duke Ellington.
 
Mark Pugh said:
I apologize for coming across a critic...

"Critics have their purposes, and they're supposed to do what they do, but sometimes they get a little carried away with what they think someone should have done, rather than concerning themselves with what they did."

Duke Ellington.
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Very nice :0) It's ok.

Thank you.

Have a good night.

- PE
 
Jarred Land said:
Check out this months PDN. Or HD Video Pro.. or Digital Photo Pro.. Plus a few other print magazines. We are out there.. if you guys arn't seeing it.. then we are targeting the right people :)

We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
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The back and forth here is the best advertising any company could have, and it costs nothing but servers and your time.

Mike
 
Selling to the already converted is easy...

Converting the unconverted is the hard one.

It could be done by not spending a cent on print or main stream media but serious ammounts of effort has to put into the correct communication...

Oh shit! Now I sound like my very wealthy clients!
 
Jarred Land said:
We would prefer not to double the price of cameras just to pay for massive random acts of marketing to customers that already know who we are.

Redbull costs 2 cents to make... They sell it for 2 bucks because 1 buck of that is paying for marketing. OK for soft drinks.. not OK for companies that are dedicated to give their customers the best product possible for the best price possible. It makes companies very rich... but not so good for the customers.
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Well said. For some account, a silent majority is buying RED. Alexas?

C'mon, give me a break or break a leg if ads on the same usual magazines (read only by a few and by the same folks) will give more Arri sales, I doubt.


<PS:> And not more RU bashing BTW, take a look at front page if you never noticed the forum stats... Where else? (try to find another one or I'll keep the girl for me ;-)
 
Nick Morrison said:
Also...never forget...RED is a destabilizing force...they are constantly questioning the OLD MODELS of how todo things, and creating NEW ONES...and that pisses off a lot of people and causes a lot of resentment. RED has managed to shake up Hollywood in profound ways, and well...people are petty and vain...and they don't always like that.

I think we are in a new phase of RED hatred personally....
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Unfortunately, not a new phase, since the early beginning when I almost was the only one to have guts to post over cinematography.com forums with Jim to be bashed there practically in a daily basis, always by the hands of the same dudes.

Nick Morrison said:
....I've never met more haters than I have the past couple of months since Scarlet came out. Makes me laugh.
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There should be some explanation, what do you think? ;-))
 
sergio arguello said:
I think they should sponsor a race car team,...
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Probably not thinking about the same racing series as you (F1?) but I think this is a good idea. My perfect team to sponsor would the 51 car driven by Kurt Busch in NASCARs Sprint Cup Series. They are currently running unsponsored while being funded by the deep pockets of their billionaire owner James Finch. They normally run a Red and White color combo with no sponsorship decals at all. Recently at Talladehga they ran the Ricky Bobby color scheme for grins. Pheonix Racing is challenging the larger 3 and 4 car teams like Roush-Fenway and Hendrick Motorsports or Joe Gibbs racing, much like RED is challenging Sony, Arri, Canon... and they are showing well against the giants unless they wreck out. Which is o.k. according to the owner as he has told Kurt to bring it in up front or wreck it trying. You put that car on the track with a solid white paint scheme with a Red Logo on the hood, trunk, and doors, people are going to come to know what that Red Logo stands for. And even though it's only U.S. advertising, it will still be very effective, IMO.
 
No sponsorship, unless it's industry related. Red doesn't need brand recognition amongst the great unwashed, as more than 99% of them are ever likely to buy one. So 99% of that dollar would be wasted.

PR in the right circles is the right approach, IMHO. Get a few directors and DOPs to champion the cause. If you really want to hit the natives outside America, do a series of roadshows in the world trade shows. Prove the Red workflow. Show easy colour grading for great skin tones. Have filmed interviews references from people like Scott, Jackson, Fincher etc - or better still, do a 10 minute infomercial that can run on loop. Attack the production houses who are shooting commercials, where skin tone, fast post and grade-ability is paramount.
 
Paul Russell said:
No sponsorship, unless it's industry related. Red doesn't need brand recognition amongst the great unwashed, as more than 99% of them are ever likely to buy one. So 99% of that dollar would be wasted.

PR in the right circles is the right approach, IMHO. Get a few directors and DOPs to champion the cause. If you really want to hit the natives outside America, do a series of roadshows in the world trade shows. Prove the Red workflow. Show easy colour grading for great skin tones. Have filmed interviews references from people like Scott, Jackson, Fincher etc - or better still, do a 10 minute infomercial that can run on loop. Attack the production houses who are shooting commercials, where skin tone, fast post and grade-ability is paramount.
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Heh, heh... you'd be surprised how much NASCAR fans are willing to spend to view "rubbin' is racin'" in the highest fidelity possible. Think Red Ray Projectors.
 
Paul Russell said:
yeah, I can foresee Red Ray Projectors all over those trailer parks. :-)
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Heh, heh, again.

You are aware that the Sprint Cup series is run in places like Michigan, Kansas, California, New York, Delaware, Connecticut (I think) Nevada, Arizona, among many others. There are drivers from Washington State, NY, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, California, Missouri, Kansas, just to name a few, and they fly to work in jets and helicopters. Open your mind and expand your horizons.
 
Paul Russell said:
Beyond America's borders, where an entire world couldn't care less about a race that only turns left? :-)
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True, but you target that audience differently.
 
My thinking is that RED works in a very specific vertical market, so broad based advertising or sponsorship is really just a scattergun approach. RED doesn't need to build a brand, because everyone in the industry knows about RED. But RED does need to educate on the post production method and the image quality and philosophy.

I say this because last weekend I was camera owner/operator working for a top notch Indian advertising crew. They were Arri, Arri, Arri all the way, based on 'skin tones'. As we were shooting underwater this conversation was moot, but to me it's a common misconception that RED can't make good skintones. We also scored major points for RED by shooting at 5K, giving plenty of room for XY stabilisation, and a RAW image with lots of colour space latitude. Although the team hadn't used RED before, we were able to overcome their natural prejudices and prove to them that the RED was a viable option. You can't do that by either advertising or sponsorship.

So, it comes back to the methods I was talking about earlier, which I can't be bothered to retype in full: Education, Endorsement, Information (and the web is a great place to disseminate large amounts of information). Fully targetted marketing to people who have the influence and the dollar, not the general public.

Cheers.
 
Paul Russell said:
My thinking is that RED works in a very specific vertical market, so broad based advertising or sponsorship is really just a scattergun approach. RED doesn't need to build a brand, because everyone in the industry knows about RED. But RED does need to educate on the post production method and the image quality and philosophy.

I say this because last weekend I was camera owner/operator working for a top notch Indian advertising crew. They were Arri, Arri, Arri all the way, based on 'skin tones'. As we were shooting underwater this conversation was moot, but to me it's a common misconception that RED can't make good skintones. We also scored major points for RED by shooting at 5K, giving plenty of room for XY stabilisation, and a RAW image with lots of colour space latitude. Although the team hadn't used RED before, we were able to overcome their natural prejudices and prove to them that the RED was a viable option. You can't do that by either advertising or sponsorship.

So, it comes back to the methods I was talking about earlier, which I can't be bothered to retype in full: Education, Endorsement, Information (and the web is a great place to disseminate large amounts of information). Fully targetted marketing to people who have the influence and the dollar, not the general public.

Cheers.
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If you read my past posts, which I too am too aloof to retype :-), you will see that I agree with you vis-a-vis the camera part of their business. But RED is about to deliver a product (Red Ray Projector) that targets both the content producing industry as well as the content consuming public. And while you mistakenly see NASCAR fans as dumb hicks who live in trailer parks, keep in mind that some country-side dwellers, farmers for instance, plow their fields with hundred thousand + dollar tractors equipped with GPS systems that does the driving up and down the fields for the operator, who only needs to be onboard to turn the tractor at the end of the rows. Not only that, some farmland in Iowa sold at auction for $10,000 per acre. This was during the height of the Great Recession. I think these folks can afford a paltry ten grand for a home theater setup, and probably already have one installed costing 2 to 3 times that much. But if they can get better, they will trade up in quality.

So, up to a point, we are in agreement. But I'm looking past the immediate present toward the near-term future of RED product releases.
 
Produce a 'Mythbusters' webisodic series for public distro: Not just the one Cioni and Ted did from years ago. I'm talking about dispelling the common objections/myths of round-tripping Red, one at a time, and put them up on red.com/learn; offer Mini-Reducation webisodes that address such issues.

Address all common: "I heard from ______ that X camera is better in Y scenario than the Epic/Scarlet because <insert excuse du jour here>"
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Like all good things in life, I don't think Epic needs to be advertised.
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KETCH ROSSi said:
Sorry Pawel but I respectfully disagree... No matter how good a product is, if people don't know about it, its just as if was not good product at all... ;)
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Advertising and PR/Marketing are different animals. Jim is a master of PR and marketing. MAC cosmetics (for example), before it was bought out by Estée Lauder, was the hottest ticket in town. And yet they did not advertise - ever. They filled a need, and they marketed to the right target audience and it exploded.
 
Elsie N said:
Heh, heh... you'd be surprised how much NASCAR fans are willing to spend to view "rubbin' is racin'" in the highest fidelity possible. Think Red Ray Projectors.
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You might want to update your views on Redneck spending power and the trend of Nascar:

http://www.economist.com/node/21548254

With sponsor fees of over $20M per car per season it doesn't make sense for many companies anymore since Joe Walmart is tapped out and being left for dead by our USA companies. Asia is where the growing consumer market is for the next decade and they don't give a fark about cars that only turn left. Now F1 might be a different matter - sponsorships there can exceed $100M . . .

Setting up regional support, service and product centers is critical to penetrating foreign markets. That's why Canon landed in Hollywood last year.
 
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