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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Wireless Audio

Doug Beatty said:
Sorry to hear that you don't geek out over camera tech like I do. I think you're getting a lot of ire from folks that have read the countless threads that offer simple work arounds for the features you are looking for. I actually enjoy figuring it out and sharing solutions with the community. People have been through the hoops and will tell you what buttons to push and what cables to buy to make the camera work like you want it to.

Scarlet is a cinema camera that just so happens to be small enough to be considered for run and gun documentary work. It was never advertised as an ENG camera, but can be made into one with a bit of thought and research. I think you'd really dig a C300 for this job, though.

If you want playback w/ audio for your client, hand him one of these and save your $5k red rocket rental because you already have your rushes recorded with sunk audio.
Click to expand...

Nice response Doug. I wish you all the best Daniel.

Tim
 
Daniel,

With the best of intentions, here is one more try at addressing what seems to be a difference of opinion. Check out this thread. Totally different attitude / approach. If he had been doing location sound, it would have cost him an extra 10 minutes of post. The way I look at the Red universe, the glass is either 9/10 full or 1/10 empty.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?75182-A-testament-to-the-RED-workflow!

Also, check out the responses to Matt's work. Pretty cool.

Tim
 
Ok, this might be a good place. I wasn't able to find a simple answer via search.


I have a Sennheiser ew100 g2 system. All is in working order on the wireless system side of things (barring any setting for the OUTPUT from the RECIEVER?).

To connect the RECEIVER to the SCARLET I have

1 - 1/8" mini to 1/8" mini cable (stereo connections)
1 - single female xlr to 1/8" mini cable (stereo connection)
2 - single male XLR to 1/8" mini cables (stereo connections)

When I say "stereo connections" I mean the 3 band tip 1/8" connections, not the 2 band tip mono ones.

All the cables except one came with the ew100 g2 set.




No amount of setting playing can get sound into my scarlet! Do I really need to buy a Red cable for $45 that is identical to what I have?

http://www.red.com/store/new-releases/product/xlr-microphone-cable-20

I feel there is some simple checklist of settings in camera to get this right, but can't figure it out.
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
Ok, this might be a good place. I wasn't able to find a simple answer via search.


I have a Sennheiser ew100 g2 system. All is in working order on the wireless system side of things (barring any setting for the OUTPUT from the RECIEVER?).

To connect the RECEIVER to the SCARLET I have

1 - 1/8" mini to 1/8" mini cable (stereo connections)
1 - single female xlr to 1/8" mini cable (stereo connection)
2 - single male XLR to 1/8" mini cables (stereo connections)

When I say "stereo connections" I mean the 3 band tip 1/8" connections, not the 2 band tip mono ones.

All the cables except one came with the ew100 g2 set.




No amount of setting playing can get sound into my scarlet! Do I really need to buy a Red cable for $45 that is identical to what I have?

http://www.red.com/store/new-releases/product/xlr-microphone-cable-20

I feel there is some simple checklist of settings in camera to get this right, but can't figure it out.
Click to expand...

Jeffrey,

I know the XLR to mini cables have to be right. Check the Scarlet manual, page 163. They show two band minis. That could be your problem. You don't need to use Red cables as long as the cables are wired properly and terminate in the correct mini connector.

Tim
 
Timothy Eaton said:
Jeffrey,

I know the XLR to mini cables have to be right. Check the Scarlet manual, page 163. They show two band minis. That could be your problem. You don't need to use Red cables as long as the cables are wired properly and terminate in the correct mini connector.

Tim
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim!

I looked into it, That is what all my connections look like. 3 metal bands, 2 dividers.
 
Alright, I am on to something here, though it's nothing I have seen mentioned, lol.

I am using a regular 1/8" mini to 1/8" mini that I usually use from my phone / mp3 player / computer to my car radio. This is your very typical audio patch cord like this:

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-CABLE-i...7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332260515&sr=1-7

I will get a decent shorter one asap and test that. Now the current problem is that when I recorded to channel 3/4, I had nothing on the computer. When I recorded to 1/2, I can hear it in RCX!!! But not Premiere Pro... yet...

Once i get a little farther, I think I will start a new thread after checking once more if someone already figured this out.



AS A REMINDER, this cable that came with the wireless system didn't work!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253265-REG/Sennheiser_CL1_CL1_Mini_to_Mini.html
 
When working with audio, you have to consider two things: balanced vs. unbalanced and mic vs. line level.

Balanced vs. Unbalanced
Think of the signal in an unbalanced cable as both L/R channels fed into the wire connected to the tip (+) of the connector. They suck. The reason they exist is because they are cheap to manufacture and all consumer electronics have them. Do not use long unbalanced cables because the signal will get distorted due to the sheer shittiness of the design.

In balanced cables the L/R are split into separate wires connected to the tip (+) and ring (-). If only everything had XLR connectors life would be so much easier (but more expensive). You can run a balanced connection for a zillion miles and still get a good signal because that's the way it was designed.

The sleeve is grounded in both cables so your camera won't burst into flames when you plug the wire in.

Line vs. Mic Level
Mic is quiet, line is loud. Moving on.

What wire do I need?
If you feed your Scarlet an unbalanced signal, like that of the G2/3 Rx, set the audio input to 'unbalanced' unless you like listening to static scratch. If Scarlet is expecting a balanced signal and gets an unbalanced signal, it will assume there is audio coming from the ring (-) connector and will short out.

"It's all distorted though!" Yeah, because you are feeding it a line (loud) signal. Pad it down -20db from the receiver and raise levels in camera. Presto! You have a scratch track.

The opposite is also true. If the brain is expecting an unbalanced signal and receives a balanced signal it won't give you audio because it's mad at you for being wrong.

While we're at it, you can't pull that speaker cable out of the box in the attic and immediately know which way it is wired unless you have x-ray vision. Please get angry, then have a soda and cool off, then buy a new cable for your $20k camera.

I chose to go A-Box because: 1) XLR cables are balanced, can be run for a gagillion miles, and are locked in place 2) There are elves inside that convert the signal to mic level.

If you are sending audio to the brain it will only work two ways: unbalanced-line or balanced-mic

Why? Just because. So, all you redusers repeat after me until it's second nature: unbalanced-line or balanced-mic (x100)
 
Timothy Eaton said:
Daniel,
With the best of intentions, here is one more try at addressing what seems to be a difference of opinion.
Tim
Click to expand...

What is your point? He only did Video, not audio... I am very happy with the image, no doubt about that. Love it! Works like a charm in Premiere. Audio is a different story.
 
unbalanced-line or balanced-mic
unbalanced-line or balanced-mic
unbalanced-line or balanced-mic
unbalanced-line or balanced-mic

Thanks for that info!

When I switched between balanced and unbalanced, I didn't notice a difference (maybe that was dumb) but doesn't the g2 send out a balanced signal? I need the A-Box, i forgot about that while waiting for the camera.
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
unbalanced-line or balanced-mic

When I switched between balanced and unbalanced, I didn't notice a difference (maybe that was dumb) but doesn't the g2 send out a balanced signal? I need the A-Box, i forgot about that while waiting for the camera.
Click to expand...

No sir, G2/3 is an unbalanced line level out. Try an unbalanced cable (mono cable would work as well) and set the brain to unbalanced.
 
Doug Beatty said:
When working with audio, you have to consider two things: balanced vs. unbalanced and mic vs. line level.

Balanced vs. Unbalanced
Think of the signal in an unbalanced cable as both L/R channels fed into the wire connected to the tip (+) of the connector. They suck. The reason they exist is because they are cheap to manufacture and all consumer electronics have them. Do not use long unbalanced cables because the signal will get distorted due to the sheer shittiness of the design.

In balanced cables the L/R are split into separate wires connected to the tip (+) and ring (-). If only everything had XLR connectors life would be so much easier (but more expensive). You can run a balanced connection for a zillion miles and still get a good signal because that's the way it was designed.

The sleeve is grounded in both cables so your camera won't burst into flames when you plug the wire in.

Line vs. Mic Level
Mic is quiet, line is loud. Moving on.

What wire do I need?
If you feed your Scarlet an unbalanced signal, like that of the G2/3 Rx, set the audio input to 'unbalanced' unless you like listening to static scratch. If Scarlet is expecting a balanced signal and gets an unbalanced signal, it will assume there is audio coming from the ring (-) connector and will short out.

"It's all distorted though!" Yeah, because you are feeding it a line (loud) signal. Pad it down -20db from the receiver and raise levels in camera. Presto! You have a scratch track.

The opposite is also true. If the brain is expecting an unbalanced signal and receives a balanced signal it won't give you audio because it's mad at you for being wrong.

While we're at it, you can't pull that speaker cable out of the box in the attic and immediately know which way it is wired unless you have x-ray vision. Please get angry, then have a soda and cool off, then buy a new cable for your $20k camera.

I chose to go A-Box because: 1) XLR cables are balanced, can be run for a gagillion miles, and are locked in place 2) There are elves inside that convert the signal to mic level.

If you are sending audio to the brain it will only work two ways: unbalanced-line or balanced-mic

Why? Just because. So, all you redusers repeat after me until it's second nature: unbalanced-line or balanced-mic (x100)
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! That is some awesome advice!
 
Doug Beatty said:
If you are sending audio to the brain it will only work two ways: unbalanced-line or balanced-mic
Click to expand...
Could you tell me where in the manual it states unbalanced-line?

I believe it only accepts balanced or un-balanced microphone level.

You'll always need a pad to connect line level directly to the brain.
 
I am going to pick up a couple nice 3.5mm male to male cables. One Mono, the other regular.

Now I am wondering why I hear my audio in RCX but can't find it in Premiere?

Then it's the dipping issue.





As to the "It's a camera, not a recorder" debate. I think we can all agree that, since it RECORDS audio, it should work in a way that, if you want to use it, you can. I even remember reading Jarred talking about how good the preamps in camera were!

I still want to get a Sound Devices mixer and a h4n, or just jump up to one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...evices_702_702_High_Resolution_2_Channel.html

But until then, it has audio, it should work ;-)
 
Les C. said:
Could you tell me where in the manual it states unbalanced-line?

I believe it only accepts balanced or un-balanced microphone level.

You'll always need a pad to connect line level directly to the brain.
Click to expand...

I tested an unbalanced line-in to my Scarlet and it worked. So I scribbled that down in my notes and wanted to share. It's not in the manual, it's secret sauce. Thanks for underlining my point about padding down a line signal- it's a really important part of the equation.

The truth is, you can run any combination of wires and signals, but I simplified it down to the most common and favorable options so people that aren't that familiar with audio can have a place to start. Mixer/Receiver tethered to camera or on camera phantom powered mic/boom mic.

I got folks into the ballpark- It's up to them to find the seats.
 
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