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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Calibration

jake blackstone said:
I don't want to take this thread away from the main subject. I just would like to point out, that Dolby monitor is LED backlit.
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So are some other very good monitors (but not TVs sold at Best Buy), but Flanders says (claims) that better results can still be obtained from traditional fluo backlights. There is no real advantage that is meaningful to grading from LED backlighting, unless they had a dimmable grid back there of 1080p resolution, which none do.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
So are some other very good monitors (but not TVs sold at Best Buy), but Flanders says (claims) that better results can still be obtained from traditional fluo backlights. There is no real advantage that is meaningful to grading from LED backlighting, unless they had a dimmable grid back there of 1080p resolution, which none do.
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There is no single technology, that would make one better colorist or would help to deliver better results. Said that, traditional LCD monitors, like FS have an inherent problem with not being able to completely dim or extinguish dark pixels, resulting in milky blacks. It's just the fact. Nevertheless, I think FS monitors are terrific, even with current LCD tech. Dolby takes full advantage of local LED dimming, resulting in great blacks and in the process, allowing Dolby monitors function in wide gamut P3 600 nits mode, if so desired. I know, it's not fair to compare monitors 10 times as expensive, but Dolby are LCD with LED backlight done right. Best Buy LCD edge-lit LED TV sets are definitely not.
 
jake blackstone said:
There is no single technology, that would make one better colorist or would help to deliver better results. Said that, traditional LCD monitors, like FS have an inherent problem with not being able to completely dim or extinguish dark pixels, resulting in milky blacks. It's just the fact. Nevertheless, I think FS monitors are terrific, even with current LCD tech. Dolby takes full advantage of local LED dimming, resulting in great blacks and in the process, allowing Dolby monitors function in wide gamut P3 600 nits mode, if so desired. I know, it's not fair to compare monitors 10 times as expensive, but Dolby are LCD with LED backlight done right. Best Buy LCD edge-lit LED TV sets are definitely not.
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Local dimming at lower resolution for the LEDs than the LCd they illuminate results in halo-ing and other inaccuracies. A Vt25/30 plasma with Lightspace and Decklink is still cheaper - great blacks, no issues really. Vt50 will be even better. You can't grade at all with an off monitor that deceives you, so a bad monitor will make you a terrible colorist, and a good one will at least allow you the possibility, but not the guarantee, of being a good one.
 
Going back to my subject, the monitor I have does not dim or change the image. I can calibrate all the needed settings, it but it lacks blue only.
The thing is that people need to have perspective on this matter. I run a company that enables clients that do not have a lot of money to get a professional result, but that result is of course not the same as paying a large post production house and use their technology. For a lower price I need to rely on cheaper technology, tweaked as close as possible to the quality of expensive technology.

Ok, so going back to my question. I have this monitor, it's used for still photographers, it's a 10-bit RGB LED and footage looks beautiful on it. Now, is there a way to calibrate this thing for video. I'm talking any creative way you can calibrate your monitor as best you can. Control images, blue filters, etc. is there some calibration chart within Resolve that I haven't found?

Instead of debating what level of professionalism this route is, I'd like to get some tips on this issue.
 
One option you might want to look into is using CalMan. It won't give you a 3d LUT to use in resolve, but you can at least get your monitor calibrated with its test patters using your Spyder.

Note: i have not tried this myself, but plan to test it out using my i1 Display Pro on my wide gamut lcd computor monitor soon. Will try to remember to report back. At $200 for the software only, i think its worth a shot.

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-overview
 
i1Display Pro was mentioned in this thread. That's great for calibrating the computer display. What about the display being fed by a Blackmagic Design output device such as Decklink or Intensity? Previously I was using Apple Color and would calibrate using the MXO2 software, but now that I'm using Resolve the MXO2 and its calibration won't work anymore. How do I make sure my display is calibrated for Resolve and for the BMD device output? The only thing I've been able to do so far is color bars in a Resolve session and a blue filter, but I'm concerned it's not accurate enough.
 
I stated this before, but somehow, it's fallen in daef ears. I use a X-Rite Colormunki calibration device, for my Eizo 232W monitor.

I recently DIT's a project for DP Julio Macat (Home Alone, Wedding Crashers, Nutty Professor), and produced color corrected dailies for that job. This time, I delivered the files to the post house myself, and they were interested in viewing the results I produced on set. I watched as they loaded the clips into their Scratch system, and wow, it looked great, the colorist was very pleased with my primary grade on set, and told me, he would keep the grade, and pass that along to the dailies.

The color I viewed on their system, matched the color I was monitoring on set. All done with an Eizo, and a Colormunki.

It does not get easier than this.

Von
 
That's basically the same as the i1Display Pro, and in fact in the video on their website they say the i1Display Pro gives more color control than the ColorMunki. And the i1Display Pro is $200 less.

The question I was asking was how do you calibrate a display that's not being output as a computer display. Both of those X-Rite devices gets the color info from the software being displayed on the monitor. When you change the source on the display to a different input or different output device on the same input, couldn't the color output and image be different than when you calibrated?

For example:

I can calibrate my 2nd external LCD (not looking for an LCD vs plasma etc argument here) using the software while the LCD is connected via the TB/Mini Display Port on my Mac. I need to do that to get the software to appear on that display. Then once calibration is done and the profile is saved and activated in the display preferences I have to disconnect the LCD from the TB/MDP and connect it to the Blackmagic card. Well then I lose my calibration since the BMD device is not using the profile that the calibration software saved since it's not being used as one of the computers displays.

So how do I properly calibrate an external display, whether it be LCD or plasma, that's being fed by a BMD output device? i1Display Pro or ColorMunki would be fine if I was using the computer's display, but I want to use a larger 2nd external display for this.
 
I like the Colormunki because it also profiles printers and LCD projectors.

I'm a bit lucky, as I use the Eizo 232W, it has HD/SD inputs, and the calibration software "Color Navigator" will transfer that calibration to those ports (so I get the exact same calibration to my HDI in as I do connected to my Mac Pro). As far as other monitors, I don't know.
 
There's still the potential issue that I'm talking about. During calibration the monitor is receiving the test pattern signals through the DVI-D or Display Port inputs from the computer's Display Port, DVI, or HDMI output. If you color correct with Resolve, you'd be going to the monitor via SDI or HDMI from the Blackmagic Design output device, right? So you're using different outputs AND different inputs. Isn't there potential for the output of the BMD device to not match the computer's Display Port, DVI, or HDMI output? Wouldn't the SDI inputs on the monitor potentially handle the signal differently than the DVID or Display Port inputs?

It would seem to me that there should be a way to have proper test patterns in Resolve and then calibrate the monitor as it receives those test patterns from Resolve via the BMD output device. To me, that would be the only true way to have a properly calibrated monitor. This is why I liked the MXO2 so much. You calibrated the output of the MXO2 so you could be sure you're calibrated properly using the output and input you'd be using when color correcting. Unfortunately the BMD devices don't offer that type of function.

If I'm wrong please tell me so and explain how the other method gives proper and accurate calibration.
 
I get my Pioneer Kuro 151 calibrated by a great technician that also happens to calibrate the equipment at SkyWalker and studios around town. PM me if you would like contact info. Located in L.A and he also do tours.

They sell VT50 at Best Buy btw, I think Rob is just a little too excited..
 
Display calibration and profiling/LUT generation a two different steps. Calibration is getting your monitor to look as close to the standard you want by adjusting the physical color controls on the monitor. Its like tuning your car. You take your car back to Ford/Honda etc...and they tune the engine back to factory specs. In our world that would be equivalent to sRGB for computers and REC709 for video.

The display profile or LUT is created from the calibrated monitor. The colorimeter/spectrophotmeter measures the calibrated monitor's color response and creates a profile or LUT that tells the computer/color processor how to change the colors sent to the monitor for the best results.

ICC Profiles are used in the Mac/PC computer environment and LUT's are used in video processors such as the Black Magic HDLink. So on a Mac or PC the ICC profile will reside in the operating system. The operating system will then use the information in the profile to modify the output of the video card to get the best results on your monitor. The better monitors such as the high end Eizo, and NEC Spectraview computer monitors have a video processor built in to the monitor and thus the ICC profiles are loaded into the monitor. This will allow you to use your calibrated Eizo or NEC monitor in its calibrated and profiled state connected to any computer. So that is why it works well for the above poster with the Eizo monitor that has SDI inputs. I own an NEC SpectraView but I don't see a way to copy the calibrated and profiled state from one input to another. And it doesn't have an SDI input and for some reason I can't get the HDMI out from my Black Magic UltraStudio SDI to work with the NEC's DVI input (via adapter).

So, to ONLY calibrate a Plasma/LCD/LED TV or even a computer monitor that gives you color controls, you would use software such as SpectraCal's Calman along with a colorimeter/spectrophotometer such as an Xrite i1Display Pro or Xrite Hubble. To create an LUT you would need something more expensive such as LightSpace CMS from Light Illusion. For your Mac/PC monitor, you would use the software that came with your i1 or Spyder etc... To calibrate your Eizo or NEC SpectraView models that have an internal color processor you would use the software provided by the monitor which allows the profile to be loaded into your monitor.

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Danai, that helps and explains a lot. Thanks! So the key would be to use LUTs. Right now I'm using a BMD Intensity Extreme for Resolve monitoring, and that doesn't have LUT capability. I can create a profile using the i1 Display, but those are ICC files. How do I convert ICC files to usable LUTs in Resolve?
 
I don't know if there is a solution convert ICC profiles to LUTs. Light Illusion only seems to go from LUT to ICC. I still have very little practical experience about color management in the video world because my color management background is from the still photography and fine art printing area.

However my research has led me to two conclusions. 1) Get a good consumer plasma TV such as this year's Panasonic GT50 or VT50 series which has good color controls and calibrates very well with CalMan to the REC709 standard. 2) Get a good plasma or even better yet get a professional grading monitor and use Light Illusion's LightSpace CMS. This will give u a calibrated display with 3d LUT that I believe you can use directly with Resolve without having to use an external color processor such as a black magic HDLink.

I'm going with number 1 for now as I already have the i1 Display Pro (i'm the importer/distributor of Xrite's photo line in my country). I've heard that best results will come from using a non contact probe such as the xrite hubble with plasma displays. But i will try it with what i have available, the i1 Display Pro for now.

I'm running resolve windows with blackmagic ultrastudio sdi. Awaiting delivery of my panasonic 42" GT50 plasma screen. The vt50 is said to have even better black levels. The GT50 series tested as well as last year's VT30 series and is available as a 42" size. I don't need or have space for a 50" which is the smallest available size for the VT50 series.
 
I have a high quality plasma (Pioneer Elite PRO150FD Kuro) and the i1Display2. So Calman will create a 3D LUT that can be used with Resolve?

I did just come across DispCalGUI (it's a free download), which create 3DLUTs, but only Autodesk Lustre/Kodak Look Manager System (.3dl file) and IRIDAS (.cube file). Will Resolve work with those 3D LUTs?

EDIT: CalMan isn't an option at all since it's Windows only and I have a Mac. I think Lightspace CMS is Windows only as well, but I can't tell because these companies don't say anything on their websites about system requirements.
 
Yeah both are windows only programs. But both are not required to be running while you are using resolve, only to use the colorimeter when measuring the monitor.

No, CalMan won't generate a LUT for you unless you buy the "Pro" version that supports that feature. And by the time you spend that amount you should just get Lightspace CMS. CalMan is my poor man's solution. The proper way is an XRite Hubble probe with LightSpace CMS. This will give you a 3D LUT.

I'm not familiar with DispCalGUI. Will have to check it out.
 
Mike Halper said:
EDIT: CalMan isn't an option at all since it's Windows only and I have a Mac. I think Lightspace CMS is Windows only as well, but I can't tell because these companies don't say anything on their websites about system requirements.
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If you're in the market for a LUT-building app you might look at THX's cineSpace HD, which is a new and cheaper version of the cineSpace suite (it doesn't have film LUT features). It runs on Mac and Win.
 
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