The solution for an affordable Scarlet-X backup workflow

[Sebastian Wöber]

Thought I'd share this since it's very important for many of us:

When we had our first 1 day no-budget Scarlet-X shoot two weeks ago (see short and field report here) we bumped into one major problem: Backing up the data on this MacBook Pro via FW800 just took too long (30 minutes for a 64GB card) and we ended up not having a second backup (!).
This is a situation you simply can't have. If that backup dies the work (and money) that went into that shooting day dies with it.

Usually people on the big shoots have a DIT cart (see above), a huge computer trolley and personnel for the backups and on set post processing. For someone who's using the Scarlet-X guerilla style that's usually not an option. And if you're coming from a world where you backup a CF card in 5 minutes on your $20 reader, there's probably also no understanding for much more scale. Note: A Macbook can certainly not replace the power and speed in post processing of a DIT cart machine, but it could join the required backup speed.

The main problem for Macbook owners is that the Macbook (at least this one) doesn't support eSATA (which the RED cardreader requires for fast throughput).

The good news is that upgrading your FW800 MacBook Pro (with thunderbolt) to a much faster eSATA powerhorse is now possible and costs a fraction of any RED accessory:

B&H currently has the new Sonnet ExpressCard to Thunderbolt adapter in stock. It costs $130: link

This adapter gives you an Express Card slot. You can then insert a Sonnet ExpressCard to eSATA. The company says any Express card can work but Thunderbolt compatibility has to be enabled by the manufacturer. They can only guarantee that their own cards work.
The fastest Sonnet eSATA card is the Tempo SATA Pro ExpressCard/34 eSATA Controller that runs for $120: link

If they had those in Europe I'd be onto them like a monkey, but it seems Sonnet is only big in the US. So I can't test them either. The company claims the card has a throughput of up to 200 MB/sec. If I'm not mistaken eSATA does up to 750 MB/sec, but then again the RED station did about 220 MB/sec in my test.

Why is it so important? Backup speed will allow you to use less REDmag SSD cards which are very expensive.

UPDATE: Found it in Europe: amazon link and amazon link 2

On a side note, while the Macbook supports the very nice, reliable and small thunderbolt LaCie Little Big Disks, they're also very expensive at around $500. The eSata d2 drives will be much more affordable at $200: link

I picked up a similarly interesting product on cnet:

This is a device about the size of a portable external drive that comes with two Thunderbolt ports and two eSATA ports. Users can connect up to two eSATA drives to the hub and it will instantly make them work with a host computer via one Thunderbolt port. With the other port, you can daisy chain other Thunderbolt devices, including other hubs in case you have many eSATA drives. (...)

LaCie's eSATA Hub Thunderbolt Series will be available during the first quarter of 2012 with pricing to be announced then.


This is a copy of my article on cinema5D

 

[Ryan De Franco]

Exactly what I plan on doing. Just bought three 128 SSDs, then realized I should've bought 2 for now and spent the other $1800 and change on a macbook pro. Mine has an SD slot, great for the last 2 years on a GH-1, worthless now.

Does anyone know of a void-my-warrantee solution to add an eSata port to these SD card laptops?

 

[Clint Lealos]

I also heard there was problem using these express34 adaptors with OS Lion. Is that true?

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Hi Sebastian,

sonnet is distributed by comline in Germany. We use this express card 34 and other sonnet solutions for our portable unit in still photography. Data is received over FW800 and is transferred via eSata to a mirrored sonnet F2 HD. Works flawlessly since more than a year, may be two. Should be perfect for the RED reader as well.

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Sebastian Wöber]

Hi Sebastian,

sonnet is distributed by comline in Germany. We use this express card 34 and other sonnet solutions for our portable unit in still photography. Data is received over FW800 and is transferred via eSata to a mirrored sonnet F2 HD. Works flawlessly since more than a year, may be two. Should be perfect for the RED reader as well.

Cheers, Ulf

Thanks for the info, looks like comline has the exact same price as amazon. Also the difference in costs when I have it shipped from B&H to Europe is I think 5-10€. I ordered it here.

 

[Sebastian Wöber]

I thought about getting one of those for my backup: http://gadgetshunt.blogspot.com/2010/12/lenovo-ideapad-u160-notebook.html
It's probably the only 11" notebook with eSata.
And it's only 350 Euros. That 440 bucks.

What do you guys think?

I think one eSATA port alone will not get you there.

 

[Matt Johnston]

The Sonnet Thunderbolt -> Expresscard adapter doesn't actually work real well. There are a couple threads here on it. Plus it has no passthrough.

 

[Sebastian Wöber]

The Sonnet Thunderbolt -> Expresscard adapter doesn't actually work real well. There are a couple threads here on it. Plus it has no passthrough.

Thanks for letting us know

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Try to get Pegasus, it works perfect.

Pegasus R4 with MacBook Pro 17-inch, model late 2011.

Pegasus R4 with MacBook Pro 17-inch, model late 2011 connected via Thunderbolt to HDMI adaptor to HP LP2480zx wide gamut LCD.

 

[Sebastian Wöber]

Try to get Pegasus, it works perfect.

lacking eSATA to get data FROM the REDMAG quickly

 

[Chris McKechnie]

I have heard really bad things about the Sonnet solution. I know LaCie has announced their solution, but it's not due out until late Q1. I have the latest MBP and iMac, and it totally sucks that neither have an esata port. Looks like slow copying for me. :-(

 

[Brad Crawford]

also have this dilemma, might end up using a PC with MACDRIVE installed to cover my bases. I have an older Macbook Pro (late 2009) with an expresscard slot so I can add an Esata card to that but not sure if I will or not.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

If you are planning on staying with the Macbook Pro, you may want to consider bumping up to the 17" version. Truth be told, once you start getting into 4K+ territory, you need the right tools for the job. It's not impossible to do it the way you are doing it, but as speed is a factor for you, then you run into Fast/Good/Cheap dilemma. I still use a 2007 Macbook Pro for certain tasks. It has an express34 slot and I use the Sonnet Pro esata card, which for the most part works reliably. But for jobs where I need to have things happen extremely fast and be 100% bulletproof, the cheap part gets thrown out the window. I had tried to warn Scarlet buyers back on November 2nd that this is something to seriously consider when thinking about the purchase. This is not a DSLR with a CF card.

What I would suggest doing is exploring all options. Look at PC options as well. Maybe even Hackintosh, although you really need to know what you're doing there. Maybe you can build a pretty compact system with some speed for an affordable budget by doing it yourself. Bottom line is, you need to look at the following items and then match hardware/software to do the job.

• How much RED media can you afford for the shoot?
• How fast do you need it to transfer to keep up?
• Will you visually inspect footage before putting it back into rotation?
• How many backups are you doing? Are there additional shuttle drives that need to be done?
• What is your budget for DIT kit?

Once you start asking these questions and being able to answer them with solid solutions, then you'll be ready to test the system (before putting it on any paid jobs). Once it meets expectations, then it can be deployed on paid gigs. Basically what I am saying is, you may need to adjust your plan if you are not getting the speed you need on set. And that could require you to put some additional funds towards a solution that actually works. Not the kind of news any of us wants to hear, I know.

 

[Bob Gundu]

That's a great summary Steve for the newbies

If you are planning on staying with the Macbook Pro, you may want to consider bumping up to the 17" version. Truth be told, once you start getting into 4K+ territory, you need the right tools for the job. It's not impossible to do it the way you are doing it, but as speed is a factor for you, then you run into Fast/Good/Cheap dilemma. I still use a 2007 Macbook Pro for certain tasks. It has an express34 slot and I use the Sonnet Pro esata card, which for the most part works reliably. But for jobs where I need to have things happen extremely fast and be 100% bulletproof, the cheap part gets thrown out the window. I had tried to warn Scarlet buyers back on November 2nd that this is something to seriously consider when thinking about the purchase. This is not a DSLR with a CF card.

What I would suggest doing is exploring all options. Look at PC options as well. Maybe even Hackintosh, although you really need to know what you're doing there. Maybe you can build a pretty compact system with some speed for an affordable budget by doing it yourself. Bottom line is, you need to look at the following items and then match hardware/software to do the job.

• How much RED media can you afford for the shoot?
• How fast do you need it to transfer to keep up?
• Will you visually inspect footage before putting it back into rotation?
• How many backups are you doing? Are there additional shuttle drives that need to be done?
• What is your budget for DIT kit?

Once you start asking these questions and being able to answer them with solid solutions, then you'll be ready to test the system (before putting it on any paid jobs). Once it meets expectations, then it can be deployed on paid gigs. Basically what I am saying is, you may need to adjust your plan if you are not getting the speed you need on set. And that could require you to put some additional funds towards a solution that actually works. Not the kind of news any of us wants to hear, I know.

 

[Tim Wilson]

Then there's the LaCie Thunderbolt eSATA hub announced at CES this week.

I'm thinking, for ultra portability... latest generation 11-inch Macbook Air, this LaCie Thunderbolt eSATA hub, Redmag Station, portable eSATA hard drives of your choosing. Fast, small, cheap. Choose three.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Then there's the LaCie Thunderbolt eSATA hub announced at CES this week.

I'm thinking, for ultra portability... latest generation 11-inch Macbook Air, this LaCie Thunderbolt eSATA hub, Redmag Station, portable eSATA hard drives of your choosing. Fast, small, cheap. Choose three.

I'm thinking choose testing first.

Not trying to be a downer guys, but specs on paper don't always translate well in the real world. I am all for portability. I'm not very fond of bringing large DITs rigs onto set, especially when you need to be very portable and cover multiple locations in a day. Hopefully technology like Thunderbolt will help ease the pain. But one must test the heck out of this stuff because getting bit on set really sucks. If it works well after a barrage of testing, and you get get fast, small, cheap then we're moving in the right direction. Now about GPUs, Red Rockets.....

 

[Doug Beatty]

Judging by the current market of external hard drives, Thunderbolt must be incredibly difficult and/or more expensive to implement than USB 3.0 or eSata.

Instead of waiting around for a TB solution, I like the idea of having a laptop with both eSata and Expresscard/USB 3.0 ports. That way, you can connect your Red Station and also add an eSata/USB 3 external drive docking station like the Thermaltake BlacX Duet

I did some searching and found a post on another message board with a list of laptops with eSata built in:

Dell Precision M4400
Dell Latitude E6500
Dell XPS 15
HP 8350w
Sager NP8662
Asus N81VP-D1
MSI GT-628

Granted, most of these laptops are now no longer being made so if anyone has a current list or wants to add to this please let us know.

For a small, all in one DIT solution this type of setup seems to fit the bill:

Red station -> eSata -> internal HDD -> USB 3.0/ExpressPort* -> HD Dock

(*to simultaneously write to 2x external HDDs via eSata, you need an expresscard with a compatible SATA port multiplier. I don't know of any, but have e-mailed Thermaltake to see if they have a list of tested and approved cards)

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

lacking eSATA to get data FROM the REDMAG quickly

Also I was a bit lazy to show it both RAID on the table but of course there is a solution.

As many of us experienced from before always is the best to make a minimum of double backup on set (if you could do more backups even better).

How you could do it with MacBook Pro 17-inch, the latest edition with Thunderbolt, eSata, FW 800, USB,...ports?

Get for example on one side Lacie 4Big RAID with eSata that using an old Griffin eSata Express Card if you can still find it and

on another side try to get Pegasus R4 RAID with Thunderbolt than you're fine.

Also don't forget to connect your RED STATION REDMAG 2.5" module to the second eSata port at Griffin eSata Express Card.

Keep in mind to install Silicon Image SiI3132 SATARAID5 driver just because Griffin's card driver is old and it's based on that SI driver.

All that is running on the latest version of MAC OS X 10.7.2.

Left Pegasus R4 RAID with Thunderbolt 4TB, in the middle Mac Book Pro 17" with an old Griffin eSata Express Card, on the right Lacie 4Big RAID 2TB.

Pegasus R4 RAID with Thunderbolt 4TB and Lacie 4Big RAID 2TB both mounted on Mac Book Pro 17".

An old Griffin eSata Express Card

 

[Zac C]

I'm thinking choose testing first.

Not trying to be a downer guys, but specs on paper don't always translate well in the real world. I am all for portability. I'm not very fond of bringing large DITs rigs onto set, especially when you need to be very portable and cover multiple locations in a day. Hopefully technology like Thunderbolt will help ease the pain. But one must test the heck out of this stuff because getting bit on set really sucks. If it works well after a barrage of testing, and you get get fast, small, cheap then we're moving in the right direction. Now about GPUs, Red Rockets.....

I think I'm going to plan to test the heck out of that hub though. It would be perfect for my running around.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Some laptops allow you to install multiple hard drives. For example, Sager makes a few that support 2 drives plus another in a removable caddy to replace the optical drive, giving you plenty of space for a system drive, a first backup and a second removable backup.

Though less recommended, you can also replace the optical drive in just about any laptop (most macbook pros included i believe) with an additional hard drive. As long as you dont mind putting one of your backups on your system drive. I have an old Lenovo T400 I used to use years ago as an DIT station that I always had two drives in, and the standard caddy in place of the optical drive ejects very easily with no screws so it would be easy to pop the 2.5" drive out and stick it in a 2.5" drive reader or usb/esata/fw enclosure.

Using internally mounted drives is better also because it provides quicker setup in the field and fewer cables to worry about keeping secure and less table space needed. For mac users, you could use two internal 1TB drives in a macbook pro and have enough space for a couple of days of backups though removing a drive for transport might not be so easy, though the laptop itself could be used a playback device through normal boot and as a storage device itself through a target mode boot.