Stage 4 - Reservations are now Open.

[Steve Johnson]

First off - did everyone have a good Christmas / holiday period?

I think everyone is getting worked up when we don't know the full facts on how the process of Stage 3/3.5/4 is going to work. Martin makes a very clear "hypothetical" point and one that seems to be right from what I understand from Brent and Jarred's previous postings.

Stage 3/3.5 get a great deal with the trade in. No other company has ever done this type of trade in and we all have to be careful as to how we are reacting to this. RED didn't have to do these types of trade ins. Jarred stated that this is a "gift" to say thank you for the early adopters. Its very generous of RED to offer this. But I think after the stages have been complete, all future updates, etc will be by a first come, first serve basis. I don't know if even RED could afford to keep this going from a business perspective (I maybe wrong).

Anyway, should a stage 3/3.5 customer get their camera's first before a stage 4 - yes. (And I am saying this as a stage 4 person!)

BUT - only if their camera is ready to send in. This is where I agree with Martin. If RED sends out an email that say's "you can now send in your RED ONE for evaluation as we have a EPIC-X ready for you", and the stage 3/3.5 owners can do this, then they book their line in the queue. No questions asked. If there is a owner who has their RED One out on production and cannot send in their RED ONE right away, then they would notify RED and let them know a time frame when they could send it in. They still get their stage 3/3.5 gift of the upgrade, just at a later time frame.

Mark - re-reading Brent's #119 posting, I think what could be happening, just like in the sensor upgrade program, is that RED might send out the email to stage 3/3.5 customers and wait on the response on when they plan on sending their RED ONE cameras back. Depending on the numbers that are ready to come back straight away, and the numbers that are out on current rentals / upcoming rentals, as Bill stated just above, then those outstanding stage 3/3.5 could be upgrades when they are ready. So I think RED might be leaning more towards the sensor upgrade process of "when your ready, send it in and get your place", in the mean time, "we need to sell to new customers that are ready". But "when a stage 3/3.5 comes in, we'll deal with you first" - sounds fair.

RED knows that not everyone can send in their cameras due to them being used on productions. You cannot just simply tell a production to wait whilst you change cameras. So I think the 30-days or you miss out can't happen and wouldn't be fair. RED knows this. They are a "more than fair and generous" professional company.

If RED waited for EVERY stage 3/3.5 owner to send their camera back, then we could be sitting here in a years time still waiting, which would not be good for anyone, as RED still has an operating budget to cater for and I am sure there is not a bottomless pit of money. IMO, 30-days won't work here.

So, and I agree with Martin on this, if there are 1000 EPIC's ready and 500 RED ONE owners notify that they are ready to send theirs in, great, You get sorted first. That is the right of the stages process. A stage 4 will haver to wait for those 500 to be assigned. You've got your serial numbers allocated to you. But then we have these other 500 EPIC's sitting on the shelf. So what should RED do? This is where I agree with Sergio.

RED could allocate those other 500 to people who are not ready to send their RED ONE's back, but that stock might be sitting there for several months, where RED could get instant money in their account and sell those, in order of stage 4 orders. So they start to process those Stage 4 orders, but if an order for a stage 3/3.5 comes in during that, that stage 3/3.5 order takes president over the stage 4 orders. Simple.

Stage 3/3.5 are getting an awesome deal. Getting the "potential" full credit for your RED ONE, on a product that you've been using and probably got your initial investment back from. Which is great news as you guys are early adopters, so quite rightly you should get first choice.

In the meantime, RED can start selling to those of us that are purchasing our first RED. I am sure, as each order comes in, accessories are being monitored so that production is ramped up accordingly. Jarred has stated that the aim is to get out of backorder as soon as (by February 2012).

I might be wrong with what I say, but, hey, thats what we have here, a forum that allows us all to vent our opinions. I am sure more information will be forthcoming.

Of course, everything is subject to change as we all know.

)

 

[Sergio Perez]

Steve, you said it way better than I did

What Steve said is what I feel, in much better wording. I just felt this constant flow of negativity on this part of the stage program needed a different perspective. Steve and Martin did a great job in that. This "newbie" feels better now and will now retire from this thread, eagerly awaiting for his Epic to arrive.

 

[Steve Johnson]

Steve, you said it way better than I did

What Steve said is what I feel, in much better wording. I just felt this constant flow of negativity on this part of the stage program needed a different perspective. Steve and Martin did a great job in that. This "newbie" feels better now and will now retire from this thread, eagerly awaiting for his Epic to arrive.

Just trying to stick some perspective to this. Stage 3/3.5 have the right to get their cameras before a Stage 4 - if they have their RED ONE ready to send it. Its simple. Once RED start the process, I am sure we will see a fair number of Stage 3/3.5 EPIC's going out before we get to Stage 4 orders. I think orders will go out quicker than what people think. Production is ramping up.

If you saw my first posting then it wasn't quite so good wording. I delete it before submitting and needed to re-read the entire thread to get back my perspective.

)

 

[Mark Pugh]

Just trying to stick some perspective to this. Stage 3/3.5 have the right to get their cameras before a Stage 4 - if they have their RED ONE ready to send it. Its simple.
)

Steve

The stage 3 Epic won't ship just because the Red One is ready to send in.
That's the point.

It's simple.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Just trying to stick some perspective to this. Stage 3/3.5 have the right to get their cameras before a Stage 4 - if they have their RED ONE ready to send it. Its simple. Once RED start the process, I am sure we will see a fair number of Stage 3/3.5 EPIC's going out before we get to Stage 4 orders. I think orders will go out quicker than what people think. Production is ramping up.

If you saw my first posting then it wasn't quite so good wording. I delete it before submitting and needed to re-read the entire thread to get back my perspective.

)

That sounds fair to me. It was what I understood from Jarred's words, also. I have to say I wrote the rant in "hot blood". Its probably my Latino side kicking in
I'm not going to throw more wood into the fire on this. I think you said everything clearly from a Stage 4 perspective.

 

[Steve Johnson]

Steve

The stage 3 Epic won't ship just because the Red One is ready to send in.
That's the point.

It's simple.

Hey Mark,

From the way I read this, if RED send you an email to say they are ready to receive your RED One and you can send it in straight away, then you will be served in advance of any Stage 4 order. If your not ready to send in your RED One due to it being out on production, or you agree to send it in in 3 months time (for whatever reason), then RED will serve Stage 4. When you decided to send it in, you will then you will get served in advance of any Stage 4 orders being processed - thats the point I'm trying to make, unless RED correct me on that process.

I think there is too much guessing going on to the process. I guess we'll know how things work once the stages start.

Hopefully not to long.

)

 

[Ivan G]

That sounds great to me! Send in Red one now and receive Epic X. Don't send in Red one now skip and move to the next person. Very simple.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Lets not forget the type of shipping users are going use to send the camera to Red. Some use Fedex, others UPS, others international mail... Packages get delayed, sent to the wrong places, etc etc. this happens more often than not. Also Red users are located all over the world. I can see US stage 3 and stage 3.5 being able to quickly send their cameras to Red, but for users from the distant parts of the world, many factors can delay delivery of the camera. And during that time, everything stops. (ok, shouldn't be posting.)

 

[Milan Spasic]

Just trying to stick some perspective to this. Stage 3/3.5 have the right to get their cameras before a Stage 4 - if they have their RED ONE ready to send it. Its simple. Once RED start the process, I am sure we will see a fair number of Stage 3/3.5 EPIC's going out before we get to Stage 4 orders. I think orders will go out quicker than what people think. Production is ramping up.

It's not that simple. Some of us in stage 3 are ready to send their cameras in for evaluation NOW. Hell, I'll bring it in myself today if asked.

I don't see stage 4 being open earlier then anticipated as a problem, the bigger problem is that some of us in stage 3 who are ready to buy now, will have to wait for those busy cameras to be returned from year long shoots. Hope Red addresses this issue soon.

Respectfully

 

[Steve Johnson]

Milan

I don't see you guys that are ready to buy now having to wait till the year long cameras are back from their shoot. I don't think RED will hold up the process just to wait for those guys that cannnot send in.

E.g. If your camera number #6783 and camera #1500 is on a year long shoot, RED are not going to stop at #1500, they should just move on to #1501 and continue. When camera #1500 is back from their shoot, they should be able to just send their camera in and it will be processed regardless where we are in stage 4 shipping. Other means this process just wouldn't work.

I am sure if I am totally wrong, Brent or Jarred will chim in and correct me.

)

 

[Mark Pugh]

Yep Steve why don't you just wait for them to chime in with some facts.

 

[Milan Spasic]

I hope you are right Steve. Reading again Brent's comment below, it's not quite clear. It would make financial sense for Red not to wait for stage 3 cameras that are busy before taking those cameras who are not but the out-of-sequence evaluation and Epic-X allocation may further complicate the logistical nightmare that they are about to embark.

Pretty simple. We have to wait for a Stage 3/3.5 to come back to us for trade-in. If just one Stage 3/3.5 is out on a prolonged shoot and cannot come back to us for a year, should we sit here with EPIC-Xs on the shelf and Stage 4 orders in the system - and not ship anything? We cannot control when you send in a Stage 3/3.5 camera, you do.

 

[Steve Johnson]

Mark, just putting my opinion in, as does everyone - it's a discussion. I respect your views and opinions.

Let's not all fall out with each other. Let all wait and see what happens.

)

 

[Elsie N]

... - that's the point I'm trying to make, unless RED corrects me...


)

Steve, not taking issue with anything you say... just using the above from your post as a segue into my own thoughts, which are...

Red doesn't seem to be offering much enlightenment lately. Don't know if they have gone dark because of the holidays, or because something has gone wrong, or if something big is brewing. In the past when they've stopped communicating it has usually turned out to be one of the last two, and seemingly more often than not, the "gone wrong" one.

Of course there is a fourth option which is that everything is going as well as can be expected and with the number of orders that have already come in, they see no need to rally the customer base.

I think this is a good time to feed the rumor beasts and ride each one the full 8 seconds... It sure beats x-ing off dates on a calender while waiting for cameras or parts. -_-

 

[Steve Johnson]

Steve, not taking issue with anything you say... just using the above from your post as a segue into my own thoughts, which are...

Red doesn't seem to be offering much enlightenment lately. Don't know if they have gone dark because of the holidays, or because something has gone wrong, or if something big is brewing. In the past when they've stopped communicating it has usually turned out to be one of the last two, and seemingly more often than not, the "gone wrong" one.

Of course there is a fourth option which is that everything is going as well as can be expected and with the number of orders that have already come in, they see no need to rally the customer base.

I think this is a good time to feed the rumor beasts and ride each one the full 8 seconds... It sure beats x-ing off dates on a calender while waiting for cameras or parts. -_-

Elsie,

Always enjoy your posts my friend. That is true. More often than not, we have seen the "go wrong" element, and I think we have all been programmed to expect that. That way, when something goes well, we love it even more )

Lets hope that the RED team are all having a great holiday period and some well deserved time off. Here's hoping that things start to rev-up come beginning of January.

Feed the beast. Although I prefer the scratching marks in the stone wall for days gone by )

 

[Per von Koch]

But aren't RED generous as it is with the 3/3.5 trade-in?
IMO, they should say: "Hey! Now it's your turn to send your camera in. You got 5 days to do it or else you will have to wait until EPIC-X is out of backorder."

 

[Elsie N]

But aren't RED generous as it is with the 3/3.5 trade-in?
IMO, they should say: "Hey! Now it's your turn to send your camera in. You got 5 days to do it or else you will have to wait until EPIC-X is out of backorder."

Not exactly fair to those who may be on a remote location shoot and may not get the notice until too late.

If I were running it, I would send out the "return your camera" notices in batches of say, 20 or maybe even 50, at a time. After Red had worked through roughly half of them, then I would send out another batch of emails. Some would come in from the first batch during a later batch and I would execute those cameras when they did arrive.

In other words, by invitation only, but first come first served within the batch of invitations. No penalty for late arrivals.

 

[Per von Koch]

Not exactly fair to those who may be on a remote location shoot and may not get the notice until too late.

If I were running it, I would send out the "return your camera" notices in batches of say, 20 or maybe even 50, at a time. After Red had worked through roughly half of them, then I would send out another batch of emails. Some would come in from the first batch during a later batch and I would execute those cameras when they did arrive.
In other words, by invitation only, but first come first served within the batch of invitations. No penalty for late arrivals.

Nah, I might add that I'm one of those who placed the order on an EPIC-X minutes after the email was sent. Stage 4 in other words... But as Jarred mentioned here and in some other thread that they're sending out Stage 4 cameras meanwhile they await Stage 3 cameras to be sent in. When they are, they're getting top priority.

 

[Mark Pugh]

Pretty simple. We have to wait for a Stage 3/3.5 to come back to us for trade-in. If just one Stage 3/3.5 is out on a prolonged shoot and cannot come back to us for a year, should we sit here with EPIC-Xs on the shelf and Stage 4 orders in the system - and not ship anything? We cannot control when you send in a Stage 3/3.5 camera, you do.

BC

From JIm
Oct 30, 2009:

If you choose STAGE THREE and do not execute your purchase in 30 days from notification that your order is ready, you forfeit all future trade-in rights to your RED ONE.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?37011-October-30th&p=501380&viewfull=1#post501380

Hey Jim
It would be good to get clarification on this.

Thanks

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Yep Steve why don't you just wait for them to chime in with some facts.

Just the facts is all I need to know and from the folks at RED who know what is really going to happen. All else is just opinions and speculation on what they hope or think should happen. I hope that everyone has a great New Years and I look forward to hearing from RED next year with Stage 3 updates so I'll know when to ship back my camera. So for me, just the facts..

In the meantime, very best to all,
Frazier