Does upgrading firmware erase black shading?

[Matthew J]

So the title pretty much says it all. I know that upgrading the firmware erases user settings. But does that mean it also erases black shading? Just wondering since you might need to reinstall firmware quickly on set and it'd be nice to know if it'll take just a minute for the firmware, or 20 for the firearm and black shading.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Well, whatever the answer: what you need to know is after a firmware upgrade, you MUST blackshade the camera....end of story.

 

[Andy Roberts]

Just learning the ropes and terminology here... Is "blackshade" the same as "black calibration"? And what does it do exactly? Sorry to ask basic questions.

 

[Matthew J]

Well, whatever the answer: what you need to know is after a firmware upgrade, you MUST blackshade the camera....end of story.

Why? The firmware doesn't require you to. I haven't run across any record issues like I did with the R1 without blackshading.

Also, take this into account from the install notes for build 1.7.10 (current release)

Operational notes specific to EPIC Build 1 v1.7.10:

* Cameras with black shading from previous builds should calibrate again due to updated calibration code

To me, it sounds like the black shading is kept and unless the notes make note of it, you can keep the same black shading. Is it good practice each time you upgrade? Maybe. But maybe it's just putting unnecessary wear and tear on your SSD's and camera because you don't need to black shade much anymore.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Operational notes specific to EPIC Build 1 v1.7.10:

* Cameras with black shading from previous builds should calibrate again due to updated calibration code

To me, it sounds like the black shading is kept and unless the notes make note of it, you can keep the same black shading. Is it good practice each time you upgrade? Maybe. But maybe it's just putting unnecessary wear and tear on your SSD's and camera because you don't need to black shade much anymore.

Huh? It clearly says you should re-calibrate... So just do the black shading. Where is the confusion?

 

[Peter Cote]

Is it good practice each time you upgrade? Maybe. But maybe it's just putting unnecessary wear and tear on your SSD's and camera because you don't need to black shade much anymore.

This is actually exact opposite from what I've been hearing and doing. I black shade everytime I go out and shoot. Black shade is not going to wear out your camera or SSD's. Environment and temperature changes can have a big impact on your black shade calibration. It's even recommended when you make drastic changes in frame rate (like from 24 fps to high speed) but not everyone follows that because it has less of an impact.

My rule of thumb at the very least is black shade at the beginning of every shoot once the camera has warmed up for 15-30 minutes.

 

[Andy Roberts]

Old post about black shading

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?33809-How-to-do-a-Black-Shading-Calibration&p=463352&viewfull=1#post463352

Jarred says, "Black Shade all you want, its good to do.. it wont hurt you "

 

[Matthew J]

Huh? It clearly says you should re-calibrate... So just do the black shading. Where is the confusion?

I was originally talking about if firmware goes funky on set. Yes, I put "upgrading" in the title, but I meant reinstalling. Sorry about that. However, even if we are talking about upgrading the firmware from one version to another, of the firmware versions I have downloaded (.42, .44, .46, 7.9, 7.10, 2.0.2 & 2.0.5) only 7.9 & 7.10 says anything about re-blackshading--only because the way blackshading is done was rewritten.

 

[Matthew J]

This is actually exact opposite from what I've been hearing and doing. I black shade everytime I go out and shoot. Black shade is not going to wear out your camera or SSD's. Environment and temperature changes can have a big impact on your black shade calibration. It's even recommended when you make drastic changes in frame rate (like from 24 fps to high speed) but not everyone follows that because it has less of an impact.

My rule of thumb at the very least is black shade at the beginning of every shoot once the camera has warmed up for 15-30 minutes.

Blackshading is putting wear and tear both your Epic and your SSD's. The W&T on the Epic probably doesn't matter, but write cycles on the SSD do matter. That may be overly cautious, but just want to keep unnecessary wear off my gear.

Here's something that I've noticed. In all the different shoot situations I've done with the Epic, the body temp has stayed within a few degrees once it's warmed up after 10 minutes. So unless you are in the blazing heat that the fan can't keep up, or the freezing freezing freezing cold that the body doesn't make enough heat to keep it warmer, then it shouldn't matter. The purpose of the fan is to keep the body in a certain range. In my experience so far, it's done a very good job at that. So if the sensor keeps staying in the same temp range, then re-blackshading just because it's hot/cold outside shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something here?

I am not sure where people keep getting this idea blackshading for highspeed work. What little the Epic manual says about black shading, it does say that the blackshading different frame rates is for long exposures (which I remember the same being true for the R1 due to possible hot pixels on LE's.) Unless that term has changed, I don't believe it means higher speed, shorter exposures.

BTW, I am not arguing for arguing's sake. I just am wondering if we might just be wasting a lot of time for no better results.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

@Mathew J.

Just do the backshading and you will have not to think about that.

 

[George Butterfield]

Blackshading is putting wear and tear both your Epic and your SSD's. The W&T on the Epic probably doesn't matter, but write cycles on the SSD do matter. That may be overly cautious, but just want to keep unnecessary wear off my gear.

I have invested over $100,000 this is the most I can afford to make good images, you think I will sacrifice my best efforts for some read writes on an SSD?

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Blackshading is putting wear and tear both your Epic and your SSD's. The W&T on the Epic probably doesn't matter, but write cycles on the SSD do matter. That may be overly cautious, but just want to keep unnecessary wear off my gear.

Here's something that I've noticed. In all the different shoot situations I've done with the Epic, the body temp has stayed within a few degrees once it's warmed up after 10 minutes. So unless you are in the blazing heat that the fan can't keep up, or the freezing freezing freezing cold that the body doesn't make enough heat to keep it warmer, then it shouldn't matter. The purpose of the fan is to keep the body in a certain range. In my experience so far, it's done a very good job at that. So if the sensor keeps staying in the same temp range, then re-blackshading just because it's hot/cold outside shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something here?



Well, when you start getting into takes that are over an hour you will see a significant change in camera temperature.

I am not sure where people keep getting this idea blackshading for highspeed work. What little the Epic manual says about black shading, it does say that the blackshading different frame rates is for long exposures (which I remember the same being true for the R1 due to possible hot pixels on LE's.) Unless that term has changed, I don't believe it means higher speed, shorter exposures.

BTW, I am not arguing for arguing's sake. I just am wondering if we might just be wasting a lot of time for no better results.

It has been stated my Deanan in a previous thread about black shading that it would be prudent to do this when using extreme frame rates.

 

[Matthew J]

It has been stated my Deanan in a previous thread about black shading that it would be prudent to do this when using extreme frame rates.

But if that's the case, why the heck is that not in the operations manual? It's little details like this that are important, but no one from red seems to think is important enough to put in the manual.

And please note that it's not that I won't do it, it's the question of, is it really necessary to do when reloading firmware, or even at the start of each shoot day.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

On my red I always black shaded when upgrading firmware. I must have read to do it several years ago and it became the order. As you may know it only took a couple of minutes on the red one where the epic is something like 24 minutes. It could be that the operations are still not definitive as the firmware is still changing significantly. I have treated the epic much like the red one and black shade or aka calibrate when upgrading firmware.

 

[George Butterfield]

But if that's the case, why the heck is that not in the operations manual?

I think it is in the manual, although I haven't read it recently as I don't have my Epic-X Stage III and have no idea when I will get it.

 

[Matthew J]

I think it is in the manual, although I haven't read it recently as I don't have my Epic-X Stage III and have no idea when I will get it.

It's not. The manual only talks about black shading for different frame rates when you are doing long exposures. Understanding what black shading is for, doing it for high speed doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Matthew,
It has been stated MANY times by Deanan from way back when in 2007. I can tell you from experience where i just plain forgot to do a blackshade at beginning of an underwater shoot. That ENTIRE day of shots had some strange reddish blotches on it....sent frame grabs to RED and they had NEVER seen anything like that....I then performed a blackshade and those were gone....The camera was stored for 2 months and had a previous blackshade, BUT I took it to a completely different environment and also broke rule #1: blackshade BEFORE every shoot.

Much of what i think we are doing inside the RED environment is also learning....sure there's been digital cams out there, but shooting at these framerates and media packed in so tight....we are basically a huge beta unit figuring it out....so might as well protect yourself with blackshading as mentioned here....I can tell you that if i even have a frame rate change i'll blackshade. Better to do it than be the responsible one at end of day that screwed up because you got lazy or just didn't know....but now you know....if you don't do it, then run the risk.

.....firing rockets from cape canaveral may not make sense to me "how to" but I'd like to follow the procedural checklist.....

 

[Steve Freebairn]

Correct... you can't do it too often, although it isn't necessary to do it except when installing new firmware, extreme temperature changes, or for very long exposures.

Jim

Then, this is from Deanan, who further clarifies.

My recommendation is to blackshade:
1) upgrading to new firmware
2) big ambient temperature changes
3) long exposure times (longer than ~1/15th sec)
4) very short exposure times (shorter than around ~1/1000th)
5) beginning of a project
6) as often as you feel like

Remember to black shade at default after long/short exposure black shade when your finished.

More convenient/flexible black shading coming later.

At this point (before black shading becomes more convenient) you absolutely should black shade after installing any firmware, either new or the same as you've currently got installed. Whether or not that is necessary after changes to how black shading is done will be announced by RED.