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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is anyone scared that RED might "over saturate" the market?

Bob Gundu said:
More concerned with the saturation of bad filmmakers.....
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So just to spell it out, just because someone has a DSLR, it doesn't make you a filmmaker and especially NOT a cinematographer or director of photography. Also, just because a camera can shoot Shallow Depth of Field, it doesn't make a great camera, and definitely won't make you a good filmmaker.

These are all tools and they all have their place. The Scarlet X however just took a big leap forward in my mind for serious filmmakers. Yes it is affordable for the masses, but on an Sony F3 and professional level, not a dslr level. I mean there is a big difference from $800 in some cases to $15,000 (complete Scarlet kit)
 
I mean how long have people been shooting on film, no one ever got tired of that "look." and again, even if there are too many scarlets out there in a year, the guys with talent will stand out.
 
There's a HUGE difference between a $1,500 - $2,500 DSLR and a $15,000 - $18,000 Digital Cinema camera (most will eventually spend over $20k on their scarlet package). You won't see nearly the amount of saturation that you think you will. One is a fairly serious investment while the other is a very nice birthday present.

And even though a lot of Scarlets are being sold right now, I'd like to think that unlike your average 7D/5D newbie, most RED owners will use DoF responsibly. Hopefully that will help us all avoid getting pigeon holed into a "scarlet look".
 
Carlos Reyes said:
I mean how long have people been shooting on film, no one ever got tired of that "look." and again, even if there are too many scarlets out there in a year, the guys with talent will stand out.
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Exactly, there's some spoilt rich kids out there with epics, f35's and alexa's only because they heard that its the "cool" thing to own.

Give a talented filmmaker a hi-8 camera and you will get a provocative project that everyone wants to see, at the end of the day its all about the operator with the "right tools" of course. The Scarlet x/epic will just make their work shine in a bigger way than hi-8
 
Film major is the new English major.

I'm more concerned about how few people emerge from their expensive film degrees unprepared for real work.
 
Sven Seynaeve said:
Just hope , camera's stay in the hands of those that deserves them (creatively ....) ,

so too many guys with canon's these days not worth their canon...
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robin hood, right? rob the poor to feed the rich.

it is difficult for a man to have genuine wealth, especially when he is rich with the latest currency.
 
Ben Pluimer said:
And even though a lot of Scarlets are being sold right now, I'd like to think that unlike your average 7D/5D newbie, most RED owners will use DoF responsibly... .
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Haha! Our latest lens to order with the Scarlet kit was a Tokina 11-16 2.8 Canon Mount... ;-P
 
Ben Pluimer said:
There's a HUGE difference between a $1,500 - $2,500 DSLR and a $15,000 - $18,000 Digital Cinema camera (most will eventually spend over $20k on their scarlet package). You won't see nearly the amount of saturation that you think you will. One is a fairly serious investment while the other is a very nice birthday present.

And even though a lot of Scarlets are being sold right now, I'd like to think that unlike your average 7D/5D newbie, most RED owners will use DoF responsibly. Hopefully that will help us all avoid getting pigeon holed into a "scarlet look".
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Just think about the amount of F3s on the market; they are there for sure, but not something you see everyday. The Scarlet will have it's own share of users and be relatively available in the rental market and with studios, ad agencies, and DOPs etc. The word is getting out and I think it will crush the F3 and the others once Sound Devices and the others get everything in line with recorders too.
 
Whether it deserves the prestige or not, saying you own a RED or are shooting on a RED will bump up your project a notch or two (at least at my level of directing) in the eyes of most producers. Whereas a Sony F3 is just another Sony camera.

Early adopters of Scarlet will have the advantage of renting out their camera, using it on more projects, and generally paying it off more quickly. Late adopters will be entering a market with more saturation, but will have the benefit of bug fixes, and knowledge and advice from guys who have dozens of hours logged on it, but will take longer to pay off perhaps.

L.A. will be lousy with Scarlets by next summer so I'm prepping clients and projects to prepare to go RED as soon as it arrives.
 
I liken the question of "wow, what did you shoot this on" to asking a chef what stove he cooks on

someone said Scarlet is like a pencil. love that analogy. it should be nothing more. what's wrong with lots of them?
we're all just saving up to buy a pencil. and we can sharpen it however we want. just like working with RAW gives you the freedom to choose.
dentists have to get industry-standard equipment to operate. there are lots more dentists then Scarlets. their expensive equipment doesn't improve their customer service or approachability.
think of a camera purchase as a cost of doing business, not an investment

anyone looking for a "new unique look" should throw out a camera slider, turn off Vimeo, Facebook and Fliker accounts and try to get inspiration from a non-visual media - like a carton of milk - for a while. if it doesn't help, neither will a Scarlet, shallow DOF, slo-mo or raw
 
Andrew Porter said:
I remember when the 5d w/ 24p first became available, it was at the time, a God send to many filmmakers and something unique no-one had ever seen before. But today? A lot of camera nerds seem to gag at the sight of 5D and other DSLR footage from a mile away... it has over saturated the market in so many ways that I think just about everyone is looking for something else; something "unique" again. Just wondering if anyone fears the possibility of the "RED look" being abused and the Scarlet as the go-to camera for everything under the sun, infomercials, reality shows, corporate videos, every music video ever... I might be the only one, but I feel that the "magic" that is RED shines through on the big screen, in features / some shows etc. I'll probably get flamed for writing all of this, I'm just uneasy, that by the time I have saved up for my Scarlet (at about 9k right now, about 5 or so months to go:) that in some way RED won't be as special as it is now.

I know obviously that story and content is above all else, but I've always had a desire to get my first actual feature out on a unique format like RED, something just makes people still ask, "wow, what did you shoot this on?"
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EPIC, SCARLET - they are not a fashion statement. It's not a pair of shoes. It's a tool.

If you are a professional, you wouldn't care if the camera was "over saturated" in the market. That wouldn't be a concern at all.

What's special about the camera will always stay true and unique. You have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Or else - pardon me - your priorities are totally off.
 
Mark Toia said:
hahahahaha..... that made me laugh.


EPICs and Scarlets are made to be owned.. not rented.. :)
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That's the truth Mark!

I for one just want to make films, for myself and others that care to hire me to do so! This isn't a rental camera for me.
 
The only thing I'm a bit worried is that customers don't want to pay an Epic if there are so many scarlets around.
So we Epic owners will end up bringing our big babies to the set for more or less the price of a scarlet.
The customer will tell you, that as long as there is no real slomo involved, the Epic won't be necessary and he won't pay more than the rate of a scarlet.
I can hear the bells already.

Tim
 
I'm about as worried about Scarlet saturating the market for cameras as I'm worried about Edward Green saturating the market for shoes. Sure Red now have a 'ready to wear' priced camera, but its still not a pair of throwaway sneakers. And beside that, if my shoes fit and look good, I don't care what my neighbour wears :)
 
John Marchant said:
I'm about as worried about Scarlet saturating the market for cameras as I'm worried about Edward Green saturating the market for shoes. Sure Red now have a 'ready to wear' priced camera, but its still not a pair of throwaway sneakers. And beside that, if my shoes fit and look good, I don't care what my neighbour wears :)
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Here's another analogy: if everyone is racing with the same race car than I am, than it is a good chance to show I'm a more talented driver than them. That's how I look at things.
 
What "red look"? It's raw without boring sharpening or noise reducer. You can make whatever look you want. Even change the DOF by windowing.
 
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