Everybody will be shooting 4k raw sooner than you think...

[Bart Allen]

I hate to admit this but the reality of the situation is that the camera market given the current trend, RED will no longer be your only choice to shoot 4k/5k Raw! Soon the market will be flooded with Canon, Sony,or what have you company making 4k tech available not only for a more affordable price but will render RED not as unique as once before because unfortunately RED has paved the way for all these company's that will try and copy and to a point succeed in offering almost, if not identical raw footage. I love RED but I see no need to go into Debt and take out loans and max out credit cards for this tech that will soon be available almost every where with very competitive prices for the masses ia year or 2 maybe less. I know you will all jump on my back for posting this, but try not to act like fanboys and crucify me for not completely singing RED praises because I have been crucified in the past for loving RED so much and never saying a negative word and being called a fanboy in the past, so don't contradict your past criticism of my so called fanboy RED praise, you all challenged me to think for myself and not always agree with everything RED so here it is! an original non RED thought. Mark my words the raw 4k revolution is coming and we all have RED to thank, Love ya RED for paving the way!!!!! p.s. Trust me, Canon will learn from there 20k mistake camera....:rant:

 

[sam karr]

5d markII was launched in 2008 and still not replacement. and now (well in 2012) the C300, 1080p, still no raw. i think people are safe for at least 3 years with an epic/scarlet. Enough time to make some money/work with it. These big companies are moving slowly. I'm sure people will still speak about the scarlet in 10 years, like the dvx100.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Of course 4K is coming.
Technology always moves forward - and it always costs a bit more to be an early adopter.
That's always been the case, and will always be the case.
Nothing too controversial there.

 

[Ryan Emanuel]

Why do you think the prices will be competitive? In fact, the big dogs adhere to game theory not competition. The c300 and the f3 are the same price with marginally different features, same thing with the af100 and fs100. Their trying to make every possible dollar in the hd market without messing with other companies. These are not companies that will compete for the interests of the dslr shooter, a market that has no money. The 1dx is 7 grand, but for some reason people are expecting a cheaper 5d mark iii or 4k camera. How does that make sense?

I would love a 3 grand 4k camera, but red, a company that delivers 5k, tried to do a 3grand 3k camera and that wasn't economically feasible, so good luck with the waiting. Lastly, debt is not the only way to afford a scarlet, theres working your ass off, which I recommend, its debt free.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

5d markII was launched in 2008 and still not replacement. and now (well in 2012) the C300, 1080p, still no raw. i think people are safe for at least 3 years with an epic/scarlet. Enough time to make some money/work with it. These big companies are moving slowly. I'm sure people will still speak about the scarlet in 10 years, like the dvx100.

The Sony F65 already records in a RAW format at 4K full RGB (8K bayer pattern). I bet that they will release a new FS100 cam for the prosumers with the same sensor (4K full RGB) with slower framerates, codec in the 5 000 $ range next year or right after. They did that with the Sony F3 (and we had the FS100).

Canon is getting ready his DSLR for the next year with 4K video too...

That's why the RED Dragon upgrade is on his way. :ihih:

 

[sam karr]

The Sony F65 already records in a RAW format at 4K full RGB (8K bayer pattern). I bet that they will release a new FS100 cam for the prosumers with the same sensor (4K full RGB) with slower framerates, codec in the 5 000 $ range next year or right after. They did that with the Sony F3 (and we had the FS100).

Canon is getting ready his DSLR for the next year with 4K video too...

That's why the RED Dragon upgrade is on his way. :ihih:

yes, but even. so, next year or the year after they will launch 4k or 4k to 1080p, but then they will not upgrade immediately again. so i just said we're safe for 3 years with some top notch technology.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I think ultimately that you are correct. 4K acquisition is going to arrive from the other manufacturers. The problem is, are they able to also offer the following and do so at the same price point or far less as you are indicating.
- Robust RAW 16-bit codec
- High frame rates at high resolution
- True 4K
- Multi resolution recording

Will Sony and Arri cave to RED's pricing? Will Canon offer a true competitor at the same price point as Scarlet?

Will 4K becomes similar to 1080P in that some companies slap on the 1080 badge on the side of their cameras and it's a bit misleading because the 1080 they are producing is barely that and often only meant for home video market.

So 4K will arrive, it's a question of whether it's a buzz word that equates to some bad products or if the industry goes the way of RED and offers a ton of image power for relatively low cost. Time will tell.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I love RED but I see no need to go into Debt and take out loans and max out credit cards for this tech that will soon be available almost every where with very competitive prices for the masses ia year or 2 maybe less.

Smart thinking. You should wait a year or two and go buy that camera. And go spread that gospel onto that camera company's popular public forum. Oh wait...

 

[Michael Dalton]

Why do you think the prices will be competitive? In fact, the big dogs adhere to game theory not competition. The c300 and the f3 are the same price with marginally different features, same thing with the af100 and fs100. Their trying to make every possible dollar in the hd market without messing with other companies. These are not companies that will compete for the interests of the dslr shooter, a market that has no money. The 1dx is 7 grand, but for some reason people are expecting a cheaper 5d mark iii or 4k camera. How does that make sense?

I would love a 3 grand 4k camera, but red, a company that delivers 5k, tried to do a 3grand 3k camera and that wasn't economically feasible, so good luck with the waiting. Lastly, debt is not the only way to afford a scarlet, theres working your ass off, which I recommend, its debt free.

In 1-2 years yes there will be a flood of 4k cameras with ONLY A FEW of them having the option to shoot Raw. But don't expect many too. Raw is not prosumer enough for them to produce. You'll see a few capable of logarithmic codecs like the current flavour of sony. Most will be Liner like the new canon 1dx codec or the canon C300. But you can count on some camera coming out in 12-24 month under 5k.

I think it's only the younger generation who bitch a lot about price. Before Red you were looking above 100k to shoot 2k. Scarlet should only be compared to Arri or cinema camera, NOT to canon C300 or the F3. Be happy that there is good choice out there. 4 years ago I bought HVX 200, and 4 16gb for roughly what I just paid for the scarlet package.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Smart thinking. You should wait a year or two and go buy that camera. And go spread that gospel onto that camera company's popular public forum. Oh wait...

LOL

 

[Adam Johnson]

I do not care if Canon releases a camera that shoots 20K they will probably never catch Red. Why do I think this....a bunch of reasons, but this is the most important one: Redcode

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I hate to admit this but the reality of the situation is that the camera market given the current trend, RED will no longer be your only choice to shoot 4k/5k Raw! Soon the market will be flooded with Canon, Sony,or what have you company making 4k tech available not only for a more affordable price but will render RED not as unique as once before because unfortunately RED has paved the way for all these company's that will try and copy and to a point succeed in offering almost, if not identical raw footage. I love RED but I see no need to go into Debt and take out loans and max out credit cards for this tech that will soon be available almost every where with very competitive prices for the masses ia year or 2 maybe less. I know you will all jump on my back for posting this, but try not to act like fanboys and crucify me for not completely singing RED praises because I have been crucified in the past for loving RED so much and never saying a negative word and being called a fanboy in the past, so don't contradict your past criticism of my so called fanboy RED praise, you all challenged me to think for myself and not always agree with everything RED so here it is! an original non RED thought. Mark my words the raw 4k revolution is coming and we all have RED to thank, Love ya RED for paving the way!!!!! p.s. Trust me, Canon will learn from there 20k mistake camera....:rant:

I agree, you should definitely wait for this to happen before you jump into the market. Don't be insulted, however, if some of us don't "trust you" in this judgement. Technology moves fast but Canon , et al, has yet to do more than just crawl forward. 4K, sure. RAW, maybe some day, maybe. But, 4K + RAW (patented REDCode!) + modular + HDRx + RCK (free) + 13.5 stops + 800 iSO native + (well, you get the picture) - not gonna happen soon. :mellow:

As RED has been known to say in quoting Wayne Gretzy, "you don't skate to where the puck is, you skate to where the puck is going to be." Canon hasn't even seen the puck, yet. lol By the time they figure it out, RED will have moved on.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

I agree, you should definitely wait for this to happen before you jump into the market. Don't be insulted, however, if some of us don't "trust you" in this judgement. Technology moves fast but Canon , et al, has yet to do more than just crawl forward. 4K, sure. RAW, maybe some day, maybe. But, 4K + RAW (patented REDCode!) + modular + HDRx + RCK (free) + 13.5 stops + 800 iSO native + (well, you get the picture) - not gonna happen soon. :mellow:

*cough cough*

The F65 Sony is 14 stops, records @ 120 fps, 16 bits 4K FULL RGB (8K bayer pattern), 5 Gbps/s RAW recording, build-in ND filters, no rolling shutter effect, and you get with EXMOR tech you get the best sensitivity in low light...

http://www.pro.sony.eu/biz/lang/en/eu/product/4kcinematographycamcorders/f65/features

 

[sam karr]

*cough cough*

The F65 Sony is 14 stops, records @ 120 fps, 16 bits 4K FULL RGB (8K bayer pattern), 5 Gbytes/s RAW recording, build-in ND filters, no rolling shutter effect, and you get with EXMOR tech you get the best sensitivity in low light...

what's the price again?

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

what's the price again?

Pretty much an EPIC-X brain + mandatory accessories + RED Dragon upgrade (8K bayer pattern).

 

[Carelton Holt]

Interesting post... not flaming here at all, just a well-intentioned reply. I think there will definitely be 4K cameras out next year and possibly, some more affordable than the Scarlet. I'm not as sure as you that we are going to see 4K RAW recording... especially under $20K. Certainly there is a good chance of seeing a 4K Canon 5D replacement, but it would be very unlikely that it records RAW when their new $20K Cinema Flagship camera only records 1080P MPEG-2 Long GOP. After all, the 1D X is coming out at $6800 with 1080P, no line skipping, I-Frame recording with h2.64 compression (though it does have a lot of other cool new features). A 4K RAW camera from Canon regardless of form factor is very unlikely to exceed C300 specs for less $$$.

To me, the real beauty of the Scarlet is not so much 4K, but the RAW and HDRx recording. Our decision to buy the Scarlet was dynamic range and image quality, not really the resolution. We love the video our 5Ds have shot, and in certain situations they shoot images that rival the best from any camera, but with less than ideal shooting situations (I know none of us ever have those) and less than ideal lighting, give me dynamic range... give me uncompressed footage and most of all give me the best opportunity possible to repair it when we get back to the studio! From many of the test clips we have seen, there will be many situations where the dynamic range alone will reduce lighting and setup bu half. It doesn't take many time saving days like that for us to earn back our Scarlet investment. Going to be interesting to see in the "real" world

 

[sam karr]

*cough cough*

The F65 Sony is 14 stops, records @ 120 fps, 16 bits 4K FULL RGB (8K bayer pattern), 5 Gbps/s RAW recording, build-in ND filters, no rolling shutter effect, and you get with EXMOR tech you get the best sensitivity in low light...
Pretty much an EPIC-X brain + mandatory accessories + RED Dragon upgrade (8K bayer pattern).

terry was giving the specs of the scarlet. the fact that you compare it to a 65000$ camera means a lot.

 

[Bruce Allen]

what's the price again?

It's not bad actually. I bet if it weren't for RED, Sony would never have released anything like it at this time, for this price:

$85,000 for a working kit:
- Sony F65 Camera Body with Mechanical Rotary Shutter
- Sony HDVF-C30RW Color Viewfinder
- Sony SR-R4 Digital Recorder
- 1x Sony 256S55MB SRMemory Card
- Sony SR-PC4 Data Transfer Unit

What you get for the extra money vs EPIC:
- no CMOS rolling shutter effect (good ol' film shutter - which looks a hell of a lot better, sorry to say)
- 6K equivalent sensor instead of 5K (don't believe Sony's 8K BS)
- easier debayering and OLPF due to rotated sensor and 4K delivery target
- uncompressed RAW option
- option to make - coming early 2012
- theoretical 14 stops of dynamic range
- theoretically great color gamut
- 120fps from full sensor at 1.9:1 (when they enable it next summer)
- records either easy-to-edit 1080p RGB files (SR codec) to cheap SSD cards or RAW to expensive SSD cards

Of course, on the downside, it is a large, heavy beast.

Look forward to seeing RED's response with Dragon this summer.

Jim is totally right, competition is great for us, the filmmaker!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Kalani Prince]

now someone just needs to revolutionize the slow-ass internet as it's definitely going to be the representation of distribution for 95% of Scarlet owners.. The net is going to be the new bottleneck, not the camera tech.

 

[Eric Rodemann]

now someone just needs to revolutionize the slow-ass internet as it's definitely going to be the representation of distribution for 95% of Scarlet owners.. The net is going to be the new bottleneck, not the camera tech.

Google high-speed Internet coming to Kansas City. Missouri? No, Kansas!

Although it's usually overshadowed by its much larger sister city, Kansas City, Kan., beat out more than 1,100 cities to host Google's next-generation Internet service. Google promises 100 times the speed of today's broadband Internet.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/n...net-coming-to-Kansas-City.-Missouri-No-Kansas