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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shooting aerials for a feature

There is another point on vibration to the camera. On the basis ITS RIGGED CORRECTLY AND SAFE, heed Mike's advice ! any vibration can cause jelly vision which is an extreme example of rolling shutter, this points to the mount being properly rigged and vibration free, if its not you will only waste time and money as the images may not be usable.
 
Mods can we please have this thread as a sticky or collate info from Similar threads. I think the safety issues are important to understand.

thanks,
 
So can anyone answer me which helicopter below would be better for aerial filming? Thanks!

Marcos Montenegro said:
Hey guys! WOW, thanks for giving it to me straight, especially you Mike. I truly appreciate the warnings and wise advise. Here's the company I'll be using:

Helicopteros de Guatemala (http://www.helicopterosdeguatemala.com/main.asp)
Their fleet is composed of 5 Bell Jet Ranger 206 B3 Helicopters, 4 Bell Long Ranger LIII / LIV Helicopters and one Ecureuil AS350 B3. Which one of these models would you guys recommend for an aerial shot?
Click to expand...
 
Anything with a turbine engine, much smoother than piston machines.

And the more main rotor blades, the better. A two bladed rotor will have longer blades, and resultant higher rotor tip speeds. The faster the tips go, the bigger the increase in noise and vibes.
 
Marcos.

The Kenyon gyros are cool...We have used them before. There are images of their rigs if you google search. As some have mentioned, the best is a 3-axis gyro.

If you haven't booked the company, think of working with a Belizean company. We have a charter helicopter service here that has a good bit of experience with the guys over at Discovery Channel. I can't remember if they used the exterior gyro mounted rig, but they were in-country for almost a month. These are the same folks that shuttled Leo around when he was in-country purchasing his island on the back side of Ambergris Caye.

PM and I'll get you their contact info.

The ride over from Belize City to Tikal or other parts will be short. Logistically, it's very do-able...

PS...There is a Honduran on Reduser (don't remember the name) who might have some heli pointers/experience
 
Apparently my advice is dangerous... I was speaking from experience in airplanes and vehicles moving on the ground. I haven't shot from a helicopter.

I won't recommend you do anything dangerous or illegal. But I also won't recommend you get into a fearful state just because you are pointing a camera out of an aircraft. Yes, there are potential hazards, some of which are avoidable, but is also possible to worry a little too much. You are responsible for your own safety and what risks you decide to take. I'm taking it for granted you've survived this far, have some amount of intelligence, and don't need an elementary lesson on how to avoid getting killed. I will only recommend that you take proper precautions and please shoot some cool stuff.

Unless you think it's dangerous, I'd still recommend shooting high shutter speeds or frame rates and using a gyro rig... here's one place to rent individual gyros: http://www.ken-lab.com/html/rentals.html
 
Thanks Mike for an informed opinion. I was about to jump in when I read your post.
Heli work is dangerous, follow mikes advice and you probably won't die.
I have done several heli shoots and even completed helicopter underwater evacuation training but they still scare the bejasus out of me.
Don't be afraid to say no if it's not safe, this is your life we are talking about.
 
A few hours before replying to this thread yesterday a helicopter crashed in Switzerland whilst shooting a car commercial.
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=139727
Video
http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?id=00eb02c3-9377-4276-9b23-5eea3e2dda2c
AS350B3 helicopter, nosemounted camera. All the crew are ok, perhaps due to all the doors being closed. Reports that they were flying at about 5 meters AGL tracking a car when their blades hit a cliff. They smacked into the ground skidded spun around and ended up 15 meters from a precipice!

Their fleet is composed of 5 Bell Jet Ranger 206 B3 Helicopters, 4 Bell Long Ranger LIII / LIV Helicopters and one Ecureuil AS350 B3. Which one of these models would you guys recommend for an aerial shot?
Click to expand...
AS350 B3 is most powerful especially at altitude, hence they like them in Switzerland
Longranger (stretched cabin jetranger with bigger engine)
Jetranger

The AS350B3 will probably be twice the price of the jetranger.
Whilst I may come across as being OTT when it comes to safety I have survived 30 years in the biz much of it before the days of regimented H&S (not that ticking boxes makes anyone safer, depends on the box!) and I wouldn't be here if it were not down to considering the what ifs and that includes when shooting Docs, quizzing the experts with whom you may be filming.
I've had expert race track managers, armorers, pyrotechnic specialists and pilots to list a few who put me in harms way.
The aesthetic result is the opposite of what you may think, with a reel of dynamic and dangerous looking shots that were attempted and completed BECAUSE of good planning and to illustrate the point, last month one of these shots was awarded "best risk shot" at the Golden Eye festival.
Don't be afraid to say no if it's not safe, this is your life we are talking about.
Click to expand...

I said "no" recently (for only the second time in my career) to a shoot after considering the holes in the swiss cheese were lining up.
The first time was when a producer pulled a guy out of a beer tent at a golf match who said he had a chopper and we could use it to do aerials of the tournament!



Mike Brennan
 
Thanks for the sharing the info and wisdom guys. It is helpful, even for guys that like to push it a little bit. Sounds like one of the most important things is your pilot...
 
That Swiss prang was a Cineflex unit, very expensive.

Here's what the unit can do (when not driven into the side of a mountain): observe the helicopter vibrating on the shot facing sunset @ 00:36

http://vimeo.com/2888263

This reel also very nice;

http://vimeo.com/9218259
 
Michael Brennan said:
A few hours before replying to this thread yesterday a helicopter crashed in Switzerland whilst shooting a car commercial.
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=139727
Video
http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?id=00eb02c3-9377-4276-9b23-5eea3e2dda2c
AS350B3 helicopter, nosemounted camera. All the crew are ok, perhaps due to all the doors being closed. Reports that they were flying at about 5 meters AGL tracking a car when their blades hit a cliff. They smacked into the ground skidded spun around and ended up 15 meters from a precipice!


AS350 B3 is most powerful especially at altitude, hence they like them in Switzerland
Longranger (stretched cabin jetranger with bigger engine)
Jetranger

The AS350B3 will probably be twice the price of the jetranger.
Whilst I may come across as being OTT when it comes to safety I have survived 30 years in the biz much of it before the days of regimented H&S (not that ticking boxes makes anyone safer, depends on the box!) and I wouldn't be here if it were not down to considering the what ifs and that includes when shooting Docs, quizzing the experts with whom you may be filming.
I've had expert race track managers, armorers, pyrotechnic specialists and pilots to list a few who put me in harms way.
The aesthetic result is the opposite of what you may think, with a reel of dynamic and dangerous looking shots that were attempted and completed BECAUSE of good planning and to illustrate the point, last month one of these shots was awarded "best risk shot" at the Golden Eye festival.


I said "no" recently (for only the second time in my career) to a shoot after considering the holes in the swiss cheese were lining up.
The first time was when a producer pulled a guy out of a beer tent at a golf match who said he had a chopper and we could use it to do aerials of the tournament!



Mike Brennan
Click to expand...

Listen to Mike, he is speaking words of wisdom from years of experience. Agree with everything he's posted, very good advice. I've turned down flights myself when the pilot and/or the aircraft were unworthy of my life. Sure, they may have joked under their breath, but I'm still here, and that's important in this line of work. Never go against your better judgement.
 
I can't believe the clip with the "cineflex". i've seen other cineflex footage and it doesn't stabilize quite the amount that this is claiming. there was like a 2' movement in the helicopter. can the cineflex translate the camera 2 feet as well?? that's crazy!
 
Tom Hamilton said:
That Swiss prang was a Cineflex unit, very expensive.

Here's what the unit can do (when not driven into the side of a mountain): observe the helicopter vibrating on the shot facing sunset @ 00:36

http://vimeo.com/2888263

This reel also very nice;

http://vimeo.com/9218259
Click to expand...
They'd better hope the Rolling Stones' lawyers don't see the first video. They sued the Verve so hard that they gave up all royalties in perpetuity for the entire song for using that sample.
 
Some of the safety suggestions that have been mentioned sound a bit overly-cautious to me, but having flown with a Red with the door off, I truly have to say that it really is dangerous. for example, if anything flies out of the chopper, gets caught in the tail rotor, you might die. i held the camera out of the door for a second, and felt 150 mph wind hit the camera and pulled it right down. i had to pull it back in the helicopter right away. i strapped the camera to my arm with a quick release knot before the flight (as per pilot's suggestion), but there's gotta be a better way because that knot ended up cutting some circulation to my arm and made it uncomfortable after i finally landed. A cautious, experienced pilot is exactly what you want. They are the final line of defense before something unfortunate happens.

As I was writing this, I just remembered that the company I normally fly with bit the big one a couple of months ago. Sure enough it was a photo flight. Supposedly the photographer asked the pilot to go too low, then the engine konked out, and they simply didn't have enough altitude to make a safe landing. Both persons have back injuries and whatnot. The 911 phone call was recorded and posted on the internet (I have no idea how they were able to get access to that), but the screams from the passenger were horrifying. the pilot was unconscious and the photographer was totally messed up. At that moment i would have preferred to be dead. I believe they both will make a full physical recovery in less than 6 months, but the trauma I'm just not sure about.
 
No pilot I've ever flown with has ever accepted going below 300ft. The most brave guy I ever worked with was a white guy from zimbabwe, over 30 yrs flight experience (some of it in deepest Africa with a machine gun crew as passengers, if you believe the stories). We hovered at 300 ft from the end of the runway as an Airbus took off while I shot stills on a Canon EOS 1 DSMkIII. Long lens, fast exposures, way away from the turbulence. I'd fly with that guy again in a heartbeat.
 
Hoo Boy, After reading this thread, I'm hesitant to add any notes but - here goes.
I guess I've been lucky since I've shot out of the side door for years - and breaking some rules on the way.
Full disclosure - if you have seen aerials of the VIRGINIA or Seawolf class submarines at sea - chances are that is some of my footage.
For many of the shots, we are well below 300' - skimming the surface of the ocean. In some of the shots, you can see the rotor wash pushing spray back onto the sub as we are pacing it.
That's pretty close to a big chunk of metal and a lot of water.

It takes a damn good pilot to make it work. My first rule is that if you cannot have full faith in the pilot you don't belong up there to begin with.
In turn, he needs to have the same confidence in the machine he is flying.
I try to never give direction to the pilot in the middle of a run - He's doing his job - let him concentrate on that while I work within the parameters he gives me.
As I said, I'm lucky - my favorite pilot to fly with works a lot of film jobs - from features to broadcast so he knows what a good camera op is after. It does not hurt that he has a monitor that accepts HDSDI signals next to him - I plug him in so he can watch what I am capturing without a word between us.
Years of experience does count.

What works for me may or may not work for anyone else. When I have shot handheld out the side door, I start with a full OSHA approved safety harness. The lanyard loops through the seat belt. This configuration gives me the mobility to shift my body into a better position to capture the shot without increasing my danger level considerably.
Worst "dry" case and I have effective "fall protection" and worst "wet" case releasing the single clip would free me.
I also use a quick release mountain climbing clip with nylon strap on the camera just to prevent accidental loss. In case of a real emergency, the camera goes down - let the camera drown if it comes to it.
When shooting "handheld", I've found cradling the camera lower on the body - sometimes on top of the leg - is more stable than on top of the shoulder. Placing padding under the jeans there in advance helps.
Besides helping to stabilize the camera, it drops the center of gravity lower - that reduces the feeling of wanting to lean out the door to follow the shot.

I use an Anton Bauer VCLX battery instead of powering onboard the camera. It has enough juice for both the CineDeck Extreme and the camera at once. Changing batteries in the middle of capturing the activity is a distraction and dangerous. No need for loose batteries floating around or near an open door.

I prefer shooting wide - especially when the pilot has experience in film work. The perspective a wide lens brings to aerials is phenomenal. Not to mention, capturing wide reduces apparent shake.

Heed earlier advice - don't work from the front seat. Not only do you risk interfering with the controls, you also reduce the pilots visibility of his environment. You want him to have every advantage.
Don't ask to continually fly the same path. It takes a while for the air to homogonize - each successive run gets more turbulent.
When asked by the pilot about your weight - be honest. It really does affect fuel consumption. Don't forget to add in all the gear you are bringing onboard.
Dress for a change in temperature - depending on where you are, 60 degrees on the ground can mean 30 degrees in the air.

Of course, there is a lot more to it. The earlier posts define it well - people die doing this. Bottom line - be safe.
 
Marcos Montenegro said:
Hey guys! WOW, thanks for giving it to me straight, especially you Mike. I truly appreciate the warnings and wise advise. Here's the company I'll be using:

Helicopteros de Guatemala (http://www.helicopterosdeguatemala.com/main.asp)
Their fleet is composed of 5 Bell Jet Ranger 206 B3 Helicopters, 4 Bell Long Ranger LIII / LIV Helicopters and one Ecureuil AS350 B3. Which one of these models would you guys recommend for an aerial shot?
Click to expand...

Marcos.

Our experience says its the combo of the bird and the rig. We've shot stuff handheld out of something that looked like a trainer helicopter at Laguna Seca and the footage was surprisingly stable - much goes to the talent of the cameraman on that shoot. On the other hand, poor rigs in state of the art birds can yield un-impressive results as folks have posted here.

I suggest you figure out what rigs those guys offer and ask about pro's and cons.
 
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