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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How many people can actually afford this "affordable" scarlet ?

M

matthew hendriks

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Since the announcement I waited years and years for a camera what I finally could afford. ofcourse I understand red with having a minimum quality standard but didn't they tell the world for over 3 years that this amazing camera would be a revolutionar product for the low budget indie filmmakers ?

Fixed lens or not I don't mind about this, I finally would be able to buy a camera what could reach this wanted cinema look. 3k for 3k was a dream came true or not ? This kit was the first shock.. it was more expensive then the whole first announced scarlet. It already was the question if I would be able to afford this camera on a longer term.

Now we speak about 15.000 dollar I said goodbye to my dream.. and I feel terrible I constantly followed the news around scarlet.. I was so exited.. like many others..

Now I get those people who tell me to 'shut up' because they just buy a epic or scarlet x without any problem in budget.. but see it from reds own prospective "the soccermom" will not shoot 3k and the targeted independent filmmakers like me still can only look at the 3D animations on their computerscreen

For everybody who owns or will buy a red camera, congratultations for me it turned out in a huge disapointment you are not gonna tell me that they found this out on the very first moment..

Let's be honest.. While announcing this 3k fixed lens camera.. didn't they provided us with footage to make us more want this camera ??? And now we hear the quality would not be high enough... too bad and very strange.. so what we have seen was not from the fixed lens scarlet ? What I saw looked pretty good.

I think red was afraid that the serious camera buyers would go for one of more scarlet S35 or FF35 cameras instead of the more expensive Epics. That could be a change in strategy why they discontuned the S35 and FF35. They would cut in their own fingers and in the end red stays a company what needs to make profit as well. These 2 cameras allready had an impressive resolution and specs list.. With the knowledge of big movies shot on a red one with less specs why buy this expensive epics if it could be done on a scarlet.

Maybe I am crazy or you don't share my way of thinking.. but why would you give all these people who were looking out for that special product a cold shower ? Create such a big hype over their backs to finaly just deliver the higher budget cameras anyway ? That was reds mission right ?? They were impressed by the rest results and it would not suprise them if somebody would shoot a feature film o this 3k for 3k model..

With all the improvements they canceled the whole product because the quality would not be good enough ?? explain this to me ??

I remember all these video's of Ted telling about this "great product" "we had some delay but now the specs are even better" .. I can not hear this stuff anymore..


Im not angry, just disapointed how they communicated this to their customers.


Have a good day / Evening (depends where u from :P I still can smile haha..




Matthew


p.s. 1 question, Isn't the Scarlet X not an alternative on the S35 ??? What about this full frame FF 35 model ?
 
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Make no mistake. There are TONS of people that can afford Scarlet and demand will likely exceed supply. That's not the problem.

Michael Zaletel
 
Too expensive for me too, but even if I could afford it I wouldn't buy it. It's not a very practical camera. For the 99% of us who shoot stuff for the web, this camera is not for us. This is a b cam for people who already own an Epic. Jim keeps saying this camera is for professionals. What o think he means is that its for big movies. Because the majority of professionals have no use doe this camera. Not for folks who like to shoot and edit their own stuff because the setup to edit this stuff costs half of what the camera does.

Save your money. I believe in the next year there'll be a camera - Red or not - in the 6k to 8k range that will be great for us.
 
yes michael... But there are also tons of people who can not ... and this is how the scarlet hype got started in the first place. Im very happy for you that you can work with this great piece of art :) It's about this target they had to make it possible for indie filmmakers in the low budget range to shoot on 3k within a very accessable price range.

These people like me are not complaining.. they already would be happy with a fraction those epic users can work with.. In fact they would be more happy with less I think :)
 
@ Jonesy, didnt we see amazing test footage shot on this fixed lens scarlet ??? That was very impressive if you ask me.. How can they cancel this product because of such a weak argument this camera wouldnt be good enough.. Such a high resolution.. few times higher then those HD cameras so many detail.. If I think back on all those video interviews with ted from red I feel "word I can not use here"

I had no doubt on the quality at all.. Maybe this camera was just too good for the price ? that is what I think.. but I only can speculate about this.
 
Yes many of us have been eagerly awaiting this camera for years.
But...
Ted warned us that price and features were changing.
The market is not demanding 2/3" cameras these days - everyone wants shallow DoF.
Fixed lens cameras are not "future proof"

It's still cheaper and better than: Sony F3, Canon C300, etc.
Competes well with cameras in the $65k - $100k range

My only disappointment is frame rates. 120fps at 1080p or at least 720p would be a huge competitive advantage. Even 90fps would be a major improvement for me.

I'm going to REDucation next month and begging for a firmware upgrade to address the FPS. :]
I'm not whining about it. RED is already the best value on the market.
 
Jonesy Jones said:
Too expensive for me too, but even if I could afford it I wouldn't buy it. It's not a very practical camera. For the 99% of us who shoot stuff for the web, this camera is not for us. This is a b cam for people who already own an Epic. Jim keeps saying this camera is for professionals. What o think he means is that its for big movies. Because the majority of professionals have no use doe this camera. Not for folks who like to shoot and edit their own stuff because the setup to edit this stuff costs half of what the camera does.

Save your money. I believe in the next year there'll be a camera - Red or not - in the 6k to 8k range that will be great for us.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree, I bought this camera for online productions. You can see the difference between 13 stops of dynamic range and the 10 of a 5d easily and when you post process red. Also you will get much less compression artifacts then compressed codecs. Whether this camera is right for you is about what kind of quality you are required to give not the medium it will be displayed on.
 
I agree that RED should not have used the very public forum of NAB 2008 to announce a 3K camera for under $3K but there's still time...

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/14/red-unveils-scarlet-mini-camcorder/

I believe they will do the right thing and make good on that for all those in that target price range who have helped spread the word about RED because of that announcement and helped them build the worldwide brand they have today. An announcement like that alone has tremendous brand-building and Internet publicity power and they have benefitted tremendously from it.

4K for under $10K is more than any of us EVER expected. Give them some more time on the other. They haven't forgotten.

Michael Zaletel
 
Are people confusing where the decimal place is in this camera? Its $10K not a $100K. Even if it was too expensive for a large amount of shooters out there, its only in the last few years that people have even been able to buy gear that would stand up in the cinema, HD has only really been around in the last decade. People have been renting cameras for nearly a century.

Why the hell is this not a practical camera for any budget film? It shoots 4K @ 24fps, and higher speeds at lower resolution but still at/above standard exhibition resolution.

I would have loved to have had a 3K 2/3" camera mainly for work other than narrative film, but would have still used it for narrative pieces. I'm ecstatic about the Scarlet X, even if I am not buying it today.

People need to wake up a little bit.
 
Tim Hole said:
Are people confusing where the decimal place is in this camera? Its $10K not a $100K. Even if it was too expensive for a large amount of shooters out there, its only in the last few years that people have even been able to buy gear that would stand up in the cinema, HD has only really been around in the last decade. People have been renting cameras for nearly a century.

Why the hell is this not a practical camera for any budget film? It shoots 4K @ 24fps, and higher speeds at lower resolution but still at/above standard exhibition resolution.

I would have loved to have had a 3K 2/3" camera mainly for work other than narrative film, but would have still used it for narrative pieces. I ecstatic about the Scarlet X, even if I am not buying it today.

People need to wake up a little bit.
Click to expand...

4K for under $10K is the accomplishment of the decade. It's truly a miracle! I couldn't agree more.

Just not for those who have been waiting around on REDUSER and spreading the word online about RED since NAB 2008 in anticipation of the announced 3K for under $3K because they don't have $10K. Search Bing, Search Google for April 1-30, 2008, you will see all the press coverage about 3K for $3K.

-michael zaletel
 
For years on this forum people have said how they have put off shooting their Magnum Opus until Scarlet/Epic S or whatever is released. I and many others have advised that they quit making excuses and go out and shoot with whatever they can get their hands on. Really, it's never been easier or cheaper to create wonderful cinematic images. Indeed, the much fabled "cinema look" can be achieved on any number of affordable cameras and it's certainly much easier to create with an S35 sensor than a 2/3rds one.

I think people were looking at Scarlet thinking it would advance them to a new level of creativity, launching their Hollywood career in the process. It's something I see with amateur photographers who never take photographs but constantly buy new lenses, lights or tripods that they have seen their photographic heroes using in the belief that owning the same kit will mean their images hit the same heights. It won't. It never does. It's the heart ruling the head. And when it comes to gear, people should only use their head.
 
dissapointed ...

I think they should do a poll .. to know how many people are happy & unhappy with baby Epic ..

and then we will know JIM SHOULD RESIGN .. heheh just kidding ... I love Baby EPIC but its totally different then what was promised for 3yrs ago for 3k and then 6k
 
Michael, yeah man I understand the argument, I am a Scarletuser at heart. I was there man!!!! hahaha. But I have avoided these forums for a few days because I knew I would get tired of this tirade that people are pulling down. I would be happy never to hear the words 3K for 3K again. Anyone who has been paying attention to RED over the last few years knows what has been going on, at least to a point. We were warned several times of issues. Then when RED said they had changed things the forums were full of people wanting an S35 sensor or wanting 4K, but weren't willing to pay extra for it. I would have been more than happy with the aforementioned camera, it would have suited my needs, however, as disappointing as it might be to some people, this is the way it is. RED have been pretty transparent about their process, for which I commend them, with that pro comes the con, of disappointment or levity when changes happen.

I feel for RED as well for all that R&D, effort and money spent on developing the Scarlet. Its a blow to them as well. There has been many factors both internal and external that have affected the cameras. Some things RED have been responsible for not being able to overcome, some were completely out of control. Who's to know whether the Scarlet would have been released nine months ago if it wasn't for the devastatation in Japan, the bug issues. ASIC issues. There is a so many factors involved.

I understand all sides and I am in the middle of it. I can't afford the camera personally right now. But I am willing to wait a bit until I actually need it, or can just afford to buy one. Which will be a good few months.

I just want people to stop crying and get hold of a camera, and make some money. If they were buying the Scarlet then I would assume they were planning on making money with it. If they have the $6K they would have spent on the camera there are other alternatives right now, they can use to find work, earn money and save the extra, sell the camera and buy a Scarlet in six months.
 
Sherjil Masoom said:
dissapointed ...

I think they should do a poll .. to know how many people are happy & unhappy with baby Epic ..

and then we will know JIM SHOULD RESIGN .. heheh just kidding ... I love Baby EPIC but its totally different then what was promised for 3yrs ago for 3k and then 6k
Click to expand...

Hehe!!! If Jim resigns nobody gets anything...
 
I am just kidding ... Even if 90% of possible buyer of fixed scarlet are disappointed .. even then JIM shouldn't RESIGN ...

as I said I am disappointed but still scarlet-X is amazing ... but its not what was promised for years :D
 
Jim said they aren't getting the yields for epic they were hoping. That means they are throwing away chips that don't work for epic... Or using them in scarlet-x. . Scarlet 2/3 would have no such lower end camera to recycle rejects to. People talk about red killing 2/3" at 6k but but it's entirely possible that a 2/3" camera became unmarketably expensive. Instead of coming out with 3k for $12k maybe 4k for $10k turned out to be the best they could offer, and at a steep discount since they are reusing byproducts of epic... While also keeping epic's price steady since scarlet is recouping most of the lost manufacturing waste.

If (Just speculating) for instance the 2/3" 3k camera turned out to be *MORE* than a 4k s35 camera people would have been angry "Who can afford scarlet now?!" and compared to the Canon it would have been a subtle advantage. "3k 2/3" for $12k + $5k Accessories or Canon 4k s35 for $17k". It would have been DOA.

So they would have to wait for chip yields to improve. But that could take 6-8 months to get the yields where they want. In 6-8 months they might as well rethink Scarlet 2/3" and come out with something like a 4k s16 camera if they still want $6k price point camera in their lineup.
 
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